Issue 53

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 1995
(Meeting No. 69)

[Text]

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 3:40 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, for the purpose of organization.

Members of the Committee present: Cliff Breitkreuz, Murray Calder, Jean-Guy Chrétien, Wayne Easter, Elwin Hermanson, Jake Hoeppner, John Maloney, Glen McKinnon, Jean Landry, Réjean Lefebvre, Denis Paradis, Jerry Pickard, Julian Reed and Lyle Vanclief.

Acting Member present: Bonnie Hickey for Marlene Cowling.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Pursuant to Standing Orders 106(1) and 106(2), the Clerk presided over the election of a Chairperson.

On motion of Glen McKinnon, it was agreed--That Jerry Pickard do take the Chair of this Committee as Chairperson.

The Chairman took the Chair.

On motion of Wayne Easter, it was agreed--That Denis Paradis be designated Vice-Chair of this Committee.

On motion of Jean Landry, it was agreed--That Jean-Guy Chrétien be designated Vice-Chair of this Committee.

On motion of Julian Reed, it was agreed--That the Chair, Vice-Chairs as well as Lyle Vanclief and Elwin Hermanson, or their designated substitutes, do compose the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure.

At 4:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 70)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 9:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 269, West Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Marlene Cowling, Wayne Easter, Elwin Hermanson, Jake Hoeppner, Jean Landry, John Maloney, Glen McKinnon, Jerry Pickard, Julian Reed and Lyle Vanclief.

Acting Member present: Bernie Collins for Murray Calder.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

The Committee considered the Sixth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure which reads:

Your Sub-Committee met on Thursday, September 28, 1995 to discuss future business. Your Sub-Commmittee agreed to make the following recommendations:

--That the Committee complete its examination of Bill C-61 after Committee Members have had the opportunity to review the evidence received to date.

--That the Committee investigate the evolution of fertilizer, fuel and pesticide costs as requested by the provincial and federal minister of Agriculture.

--That the Committee invite the Co-Chairs of the Canada-U.S. Joint Commission on Grains to appear before the Committee in order to discuss the Commission's findings.

And debate arising thereon;

On motion of Lyle Vanclief, it was agreed--That the Sixth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure be amended by adding at page 1, paragraph 4 immediately after the word "Agriculture" the following:

"and other farm input costs as time permits".

It was agreed--That the Sixth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure as amended, be adopted.

It was agreed--That the first witnesses to be called before the Committee in relation to its Study on farm input costs be Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and The Canadian Federation of Agriculture".

At 10:15 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1995
(Meeting No. 71)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 9:15 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Marlene Cowling, Wayne Easter, Elwin Hermanson, Jake Hoeppner, Jean Landry, Glen McKinnon, Jerry Pickard, Julian Reed and Lyle Vanclief.

Acting Members present: Leon Benoit for Cliff Breitkreuz; Derek Lee for Denis Paradis; Gary Pillitteri for John Maloney.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator; Jean-Denis Fréchette, Economist. From the Legislation Council Office: Phillippe Ducharme, Legislative Counsel. From Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada: Lyle Vanclief, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food; Phil Amundsen, Director General, Mid-West Region, Food Production and Inspection Branch; Reg Gatenby, Chief, Legislation, Food Production and Inspection Branch; Henry Molot, Q.C., Senior General Counsel, Administrative Law Sector.

Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the House of Commons on February 13, 1995, consideration of Bill C-61, The Agriculture and Agri-Food Administrative Monetary Penalties Act.

Sonya Dakers made a statement and answered questions.

Lyle Vanclief made a statement and with the other witnesses, answered questions.

At 11:00 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 19, 1995
(Meeting No. 72)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 9:15 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Marlene Cowling, Wayne Easter, Elwin Hermanson, Jake Hoeppner, Jean Landry, John Maloney, Glen McKinnon, Jerry Pickard and Lyle Vanclief.

Acting Members present: Leon Benoit for Cliff Breitkreuz; Paul Szabo for Denis Paradis.

Associate Member present: Vic Althouse.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Canadian Federation of Agriculture: Jack Wilkinson, President; Sally Rutherford, Executive Director; Yves Leduc, Policy Analyst.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), a study on farm input costs.

Jack Wilkinson made a statement and, with the other witnesses, answered questions.

At 11:05 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, OCTOBER 23, 1995
(Meeting No. 73)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 7:10 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 253-D, Centre Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Marlene Cowling, Wayne Easter, Elwin Hermanson, Jake Hoeppner, Jean Landry, John Maloney, Jerry Pickard and Julian Reed.

Acting Members present: Leon Benoit for Cliff Breitkreuz; Bernie Collins for Glen McKinnon; Rex Crawford for Denis Paradis; John Richardson for Lyle Vanclief.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator.

Appearing: Fernand Robichaud, Secretary of State, Agriculture and Agri-Food, Fisheries and Oceans.

Witnesses: From Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada: Phil Amundsen, Director General, Mid-West Region, Food Production and Inspection Branch; Reg Gatenby, Chief, Legislation, Food Production and Inspection Branch. From the Department of Justice: Henry Molot, Q.C., Senior General Counsel, Administrative Law Sector.

Clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-61, the Agriculture and Agri-Food Administrative Monetary Penalties Act.

At 7:47 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 8:06 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed, due to technical difficulties, in room 237-C, Centre Block.

The Chairman called Clause 2.

Clauses 2 and 3 carried severally.

On Clause 4

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 4 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out line 22, on page 2, and substituting the following:

"Act or the Health of Animals Act,

if the contravention or the failure or neglect to perform the duty, as the case may be, is an offence under an agri-food Act;"

The question being put on the amendment, it carried, on division.

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 4 of Bill C-61 be amended.

(a) by adding, immediately after line 33, on page 2, the following:

"(e) respecting the determination of a lesser amount that may be paid in complete satisfaction of a penalty if paid within the prescribed time and manner;

(b) by renumbering the subsequent paragraphs and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 4 of Bill C-61 be amended by adding, immediately after line 16, on page 3, the following:

Criteria

"(3) Without restricting the generality of paragraph (1)(d), in making regulations respecting the criteria for increasing or reducing the amount of the penalty for a violation, the Minister shall include the following in any such criteria:

(a) the degree of intention or negligence on the part of the person who committed the violation;

(b) the harm done by the violation; and

(c) the history of the person who committed the violation of prior violations or convictions under agri-food Acts within the five year period immediately before the violation."

The question being put on the amendment, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

The question being put on Clause 4, as amended, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Wayne Easter
Julian Reed
Rex Crawford
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

After debate, Clause 5 carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(7)
Jean Landry

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner--(3)
Elwin Hermanson

On Clause 6

On motion of Marlene Cowling, it was agreed--That Clause 6 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out lines 30 to 33, on page 3, and substituting the following:

(b) establish, in respect of each violation, a short-form description to be used in notices of violation."

Clause 6, as amended, carried.

On Clause 7

On motion of Marlene Cowling, it was agreed--That Clause 7 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out line 8, on page 4, and substituting the following:

"graph 6(a) has reasonable grounds to believe that a person has commit-"

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 7 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out lines 16 to 21, on page 4, and substituting the following:

"(i) the penalty, established in accordance with the regulations, for the violation that the person is liable to pay,

(ii) particulars concerning the time for paying and the manner of paying the penalty, and

(iii) subject to the regulations, a lesser amount that may be paid in complete satisfaction of the penalty if paid within the time and manner specified in the notice."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 7 of Bill C-61 be amended by adding, immediately after line 21, on page 4, the following:

Summary of rights

"(3) A notice of violation must clearly summarize, in plain language, the rights and obligations under this Act of the person on whom it is served, including the right to have the facts of the violation reviewed by the Minister or the Tribunal, and the procedure for requesting such a review."

The question being put on the amendment, it carried, on division.

Clause 7, as amended, carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clause 8 carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

On Clause 9

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 9 of Bill C-61 be amended.

(a) by striking out lines 34 to 38, on page 4, and substituting the following:

"penalty and the person named in the notice pays, in the prescribed time and manner, the amount of the penalty or, subject to the regulations, the lesser amount set out in the notice that may be paid in lieu of the penalty,"

(b) by striking out lines 6 to 13, on page 5, and substituting the following:

Alternatives to payment

"(2) Instead of paying the penalty set out in a notice of violation or, where applicable, the lesser amount that may be paid in lieu of the penalty, the person named in the notice may, in the prescribed time and manner,

(a) if the penalty is $2,000 or more, request to enter into a compliance agreement with the Minister that ensures the person's compliance with the agri-food Act or regulation to which the"

Deeming

"(3) Where a person who is served with a notice of violation that sets out a penalty does not pay the penalty in the prescribed time and manner or, where applicable, the lesser amount that may be paid in lieu of the penalty, and does not exercise any right referred to in subsection (2) in the prescribed time and manner, the person is deemed to have committed the violation identified in the notice."

After debate, the question being put on the admendment, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clause 9, as amended, carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

After debate, Clause 10 carried, on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clauses 11 and 12 carried severally on the following division:

After debate, Clauses 13, 14 and 15 carried severally on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clauses 16 and 17 carried severally.

On Clause 18

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 18 of Bill C-61 be amended.

(a) by striking out line 20, on page 10, and substituting the following:

Certain defences not available

"18. (1) A person named in a notice of violation".

(b) by adding, immediately after line 27, on page 10, the following:

Common law principles

"(2) Every rule and principle of the common law that renders any circumstance a justification or excuse in relation to a charge for an offence under an agri-food Act applies in respect of a violation to the extent that it is not inconsistent with this Act."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clause 18, as amended, carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

On Clause 19

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 19 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out line 29, on page 10, and substituting the following:

"lation are reviewed, the Min-".

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clause 19, as amended, carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

On Clause 20

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 20 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out line 36, on page 10, and substituting the following:

"document issued under an agri-food Act is liable for a violation that is com-".

The question being put on the amendment, it carried, on division.

Clause 20 carried, on division.

Clauses 21 and 22 carried severally.

After debate, Clause 23 carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

On Clause 24

Marlene Cowling moved--That Clause 24 of Bill C-61 be amended by striking out lines 5 and 6, on page 12, and substituting the following:

"in accordance with the regulations, either personally or in such other manner as may be authorized in the regulations."

The question being put on the amendment, it carried, on division.

Clause 24 carried, on division.

Clauses 25, 26 and 27 carried severally.

After debate Clauses 28 and 29 carried severally on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

Clauses 30 to 39 inclusive carried severally on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(7)
Jean Landry

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

After debate, Clauses 40 to 90 inclusive carried severally on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(7)
Jean Landry

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner--(3)
Elwin Hermanson

Clause 1 carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(7)
Jean Landry

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner--(3)
Elwin Hermanson

The Title carried on the following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(7)
Jean Landry

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner--(3)
Elwin Hermanson

The Bill carried on following division:

YEAS

Marlene Cowling
John Maloney
Rex Crawford
Julian Reed
Wayne Easter
John Richardson--(6)

NAYS

Leon Benoit
Jake Hoeppner
Elwin Hermanson
Jean Landry--(4)

It was agreed--That the Committee order a reprint for use at Report Stage.

Ordered--That the Chairman report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

At 9:45 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 25, 1995
(Meeting No. 74)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 3:40 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 371, West Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Marlene Cowling, Jake Hoeppner, Jean Landry, John Maloney, Glen McKinnon, Jerry Pickard and Julian Reed.

Acting Members present: Bernie Collins for Lyle Vanclief; Janko Peric for Denis Paradis.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada: Tom Richardson, Director General, Farm Income Policy and Programs, Policy Branch; Alan Asselstine, Economist, Farm Inputs, Farm Income Policy and Programs Directorate, Policy Branch; From Health Canada: Ivo Krupka, Head Policies - Alternatives - Legislation - Compliance - Communications, Pest Management, Regulatory Agency.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), a study on farm input costs.

Tom Richardson made a statement and, with the other witnesses, answered questions.

At 5:10 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 1995
(Meeting No. 75)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 9:05 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 253-D, Centre Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Jean-Guy Chrétien, Marlene Cowling, Wayne Easter, Jean Landry, John Maloney, Glen McKinnon, Jerry Pickard and Julian Reed.

Acting Members present: Reginald Bélair for Lyle Vanclief; Leon Benoit for Elwin Hermanson; Brenda Chamberlain for Denis Paradis.

Associate Member present: Vic Althouse.

Other Member present: John Finlay.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From Industry Canada - Competition Bureau: Don Mercer, Deputy Director of Investigation and Research, Criminal Matters Branch; Andrea Rosen, Commerce Officer, Criminal Matters Branch.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), a study on farm input cost.

Don Mercer made a statement and, with the other witness, answered questions.

At 10:55 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 1995
(Meeting No. 76)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 9:20 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Acting Chairman, Murray Calder, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Marlene Cowling, Jean Landry, John Maloney, Glen McKinnon, Julian Reed and Lyle Vanclief.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Canadian Petroleum Products Institute: Brendan P. Hawley, Vice-President, Public Affairs; Bob Clapp, Vice-President, External Relations.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), a study on farm input costs.

Brendan Hawley and Robert Clapp made statements and answered questions.

At 11:00 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1995
(Meeting No. 77)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 9:45 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 209, West Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Wayne Easter, Elwin Hermanson, Jake Hoeppner, Glen McKinnon, Denis Paradis, Jerry Pickard and Julian Reed.

Acting Members present: Leon Benoit for Cliff Breitkreuz; Bernie Collins for John Maloney; John Richardson for Lyle Vanclief.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witness: From Canadian Fertilizer Institute: Roger Larson, Managing Director; Barry Clarke, Consultant.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), a study on farm input costs.

Roger Larson made a statement and, with the other witness, answered questions.

At 11:00 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Marc Toupin

Clerk of the Committee

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1995
(Meeting No. 78)

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food met at 3:33 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chairman, Jerry Pickard, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Murray Calder, Jean-Guy Chrétien, Wayne Easter, Jake Hoeppner, John Maloney, Jerry Pickard, Julian Reed and Lyle Vanclief.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Sonya Dakers, Research Coordinator and Jean-Denis Fréchette, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers: Randy Wolgemuth, President; Lloyd Sandercock, Vice-President; Jacqueline Ryrie, Executive Director.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2), a study on farm input costs.

Lloyd Sandercock made an opening statement and, with the other witnesses, answered questions.

At 4:46 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Ellen Savage

A/Clerk of the Committee