[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Tuesday, February 14, 1995
.1530
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Ladies and gentlemen, it is with pleasure that I call this meeting to order. I would like to welcome all the members and the officials present.
[English]
The first order of the day is an official congratulation to the new parliamentary librarian, Mr. Paré. I took the liberty of writing a letter on my own and your behalf when the appointment was announced in late December, and I think it would be appropriate to have a motion placing on the record our congratulations on the appointment. It is known that at the request of members of this committee I communicated to the Prime Minister on two different occasions. I expressed our view that the post should be filled promptly and should not be left vacant in view of the large changes needed to modernize the library, and as in any other appointment, full deference should be given to the professional qualifications needed in a post such as this.
I think our views were taken into full account. In any case, I had the pleasure to see Mr. Paré appointed. I think it would be in order to accept a motion of congratulations. Madame Debien.
[Translation]
Ms Dalphond-Guiral (Laval-Centre): No, Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral. I am replacing Ms Debien and, on her behalf, I am happy to move this motion.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Very good. Ms Dalphond-Guiral has moved the motion.
[English]
Is there discussion on that? I would like to have a unanimous motion.
Everybody is in accord so it is my pleasure to convey to you, Mr. Paré, our congratulations on your appointment and our good wishes for success in the challenge of reconciling the best of the magnificent part of the 100 years and more of tradition, and due to the electronic age we're entering into our cooperation in carrying out the library's future activities.
[Translation]
Congratulations on behalf of all the members of this committee.
[English]
Mr. Richardson (Perth - Wellington - Waterloo): My congratulations to Mr. Paré. I think it was important that we selected a professional librarian to represent this library, and I think it was a wise move to select a librarian from that pool.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Our committee has no official status in terms of the appointment of a librarian. It's not part of our mandate in communicating with the Prime Minister. I, on your behalf, respected the constitutional powers and mandates of each organ of government. It was your view, though, as I communicated in exactly those terms. I am delighted the Prime Minister has respected these, and undoubtedly other recommendations, to the same effect, communicated to him.
.1535
Clearly, it is an excellent appointment. I've heard no criticisms but only expressions of happiness at the choice.
I am very happy to have your comments, Mr. Richardson, in support of that.
Are there any other comments anybody would like to add?
Mr. Paré, would you like to say something?
Mr. R. Paré (Parliamentary Librarian): I would like to thank the members for their warm congratulations.
I see my new responsibilities as very challenging and very stimulating in the forthcoming years in the provision of information, documentation and research analysis to senators and members of the House of Commons - in the context of resources and budget restraint.
I am sure I can count on the managers and staff of the library to meet those challenges. I know I will have the support of the two speakers and the members of the standing joint committee in facing those challenges.
I thank you.
[Translation]
Thank you very much for all your good wishes.
[English]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Thank you.
Our agenda is somewhat open. I'll simply take the opportunity, if I may, of raising one question I've raised in other contexts. It's not simply a matter of the prudent and economical administration of parliamentary business but also using the best professional talents available.
In the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, I have recommended that we recommend parliamentary committees use the facilities of the parliamentary library research staff for purposes of writing reports of commissions or committees of Parliament.
It seems to me it is not the best choice to go outside and hire outside persons to write reports at considerable expense when we have the talent available. Mr. Finsten is director of the research division.
I conveyed that again this morning to the House committee. I think that is noted in their Minutes of Proceedings and Evidence. I spoke this afternoon with the chairman of one of the parliamentary committees. He's discussed with me his own discussions with Mr. Finsten in terms of best utilization of the parliamentary library research team.
As a general principle, not merely in a period of restraint for economical reasons, but also in a period in which talent should be used to the full, when we have this expert talent equivalent to graduate research divisions of universities, we should use the talent.
As a result of these suggestions of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, I think there will be more recourse to the experts of the parliamentary library research staff.
I don't know if there any comments.
Mrs. Jennings (Mission - Coquitlam): I just want to point out that in view of fiscal restraint - and as a committee, I know we're committed to trying to keep expenses down, and I'm sure Mr. Paré is too - I of course agree that we should use our researchers whenever we can in the library. But I'm sure, Mr. Paré, there are times when we have an expert researcher somewhere in a university who might be the leading authority in Canada on some particular thing. Would we still use that person?
Mr. Paré: Sure. We already have offered to the committees to provide some research support. We will be pleased to do it. But I can understand that sometimes the committee may need special expertise. This expertise may not be readily available in the library.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): I was particularly concerned with the situation of a good committee and a good report, but at considerable expense. An outside person is hired to write the report while members of the library research staff sit on our committees as secretaries or assistants. It seems foolish to use them to record material and not at least consider having them write up the report. They're trained researchers. It seems to be an exercise in luxury to go outside, unless for pressing reasons. It was in that context. I didn't mean to exclude any suggestion about experts of this particular nature.
.1540
Are there any other comments on this issue? Is there any other business you'd like to raise?
We are expecting a report from Mr. Paré at a future meeting on the progress of the implementation of the technical and going into the electronic age of the library. I think it would perhaps be premature to undertake that today, unless you wish to comment on it at this stage.
Mr. Paré: I was not ready to make any statement or special report today, because this was not what I was asked to do by the clerk. I would say, though, that we have undertaken a program review. We are in the process of a cost analysis. We should be ready to report by the end of March or the beginning of April on that part of the program review, which is the cost analysis of all the products and services of the library. The committee may want, at that time, to look at these data. We will provide reports to the two chairmen and to the members of the standing committee.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Thank you, Mr. Paré.
Is there is any other business members would like to raise at this stage? If not, I think, Mr. Co-President, we are in the happy position of having been able to have had a very brief meeting with all problems resolved. This is an optimistic view for the future.
Mr. Richardson: I'm sorry. I just have a statement.
We have some new members, and as a new member last year, I was treated to an excellent tour of the library. I wondered if Mr. Paré would offer that same tour to the new members.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): May I ask, Madame Dalphond-Guiral,
[Translation]
are you replacing Ms Debien permanently?
Ms Dalphond-Guiral: No, no. I am here just for today, she is irreplaceable.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Only for today. Nevertheless, if there was a tour of the library, would you be interested?
Ms Dalphond-Guiral: Certainly.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Yes?
Ms Dalphond-Guiral: Of course.
[English]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Mr. Paré, would that be open at some future stage?
Mr. Paré: Sure. We will be pleased to receive any members for a visit to the library,
[Translation]
and Ms Dalphond-Guiral is certainly welcome. We will be happy to receive you.
Ms Dalphond-Guiral: I will come.
Mr. Paré: We would be very happy if you did so.
[English]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Would any other members who've not had that visit like to have it or would any like to repeat it?
Mr. Gallaway (Sarnia - Lambton): I would.
Mr. Richardson: Depending on the time of it, I may do it myself.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Mr. Paré, perhaps that could be arranged, ideally the earlier the better, because then one has a full year to profit from the resources of the library. Could that be done in the next couple of weeks, perhaps?
Mr. Paré: Oh, yes. You just have to give us a call and we will arrange to have it organized.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Good. Could I leave to members, then, the initiative of contacting Mr. Paré's office? We can give you a phone number if you have difficulty finding it. He'll arrange that.
It is well worth the tour. In fact it's one of those things, as Mr. Richardson said, that's worth revisiting. It's like the British Museum or the Louvre: it improves every nineteenth or twentieth visit. You certainly learn new truths about it. I may try to come back myself.
Thank you very much.
Is there any other business? Senator Doyle.
Senator Doyle (North York): I'm wondering, Mr. Chairman, if you could give us some kind of indication of the nature of upcoming business. We have been in a long period when we have really not been able to grapple with a great deal because of the change in command and waiting for the settling of the principal appointment. I would just like to have some idea of what areas we're going to tackle and what things we might prepare for.
.1545
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): We are all in a certain sense waiting for Mr. Godot, meaning Paul Martin and the budget. I think that by the end of the month we will have some idea of what effect the budgetary restraints will have on operations.
We've done our best in the past months to defend the notion of a viable library, which is necessary to the effective functioning of Parliament, but we'll have a clear idea I think by the time of the budget as to what sorts of financial constraints may exist on the plans for expansion of the library, and more particularly for moving over also to an electronic base for it.
I expect Mr. Paré will fulfil the mandate that he very kindly undertook to report back to us on planning for the library in the next stage immediately after we know the budgetary decision.
I think there will be two important areas. First, what diversion of resources within the library budget is warranted between the classical library we now have and the new electronically based library? Second, what would be what changes, if any, needed in relation to the full facilities the library is provided? This means research facilities for members and for committees resulting from the budgetary decisions. I think again that Mr. Finsten will be wanting to report to us on that.
I would expect a meeting early in March in which we really could plan the next 12 months, the next budgetary year, with some confidence. Beyond that, having installed a professional as librarian and being guaranteed no hiatus in the progression of our task, I think perhaps we should wait the further two weeks.
If there are any suggestions for other matters to take up at the March meeting, I'd be delighted to have them. I think overall that it's a matter of just determining the ideal policy terms within the constraints of what is economically possible. It's a difficult time for all of us. The library is included, as well as the other government departments.
Senator Doyle: Thanks for your help.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Thank you, Senator, for your intervention.
Mrs. Jennings: Mr. Chairman, I did have one more question for Mr. Paré.
First, Mr. Paré, I'd like to thank you for the letter you sent to us informing us and bringing us up to date on the Wellington and Confederation branch libraries. You do state that Wellington has been closed for asbestos removal and renovation. Is there a date suggested for when it will open again?
Mr. Paré: We don't have an exact date, but we were told that we should be able to reopen the branch before the end of this year.
Mrs. Jennings: Before June?
Mr. Paré: I would say probably during the summer.
Mr. Lemay would have a specific answer. Could you specify that?
Mr. François Lemay (Director General, Director of Information and Technical Services, Library of Parliament): Yes. I fortunately received some information yesterday on the issue. There was a meeting with Public Works. The earliest it will reopen would be January 1996.
Mrs. Jennings: January 1996. Okay, thank you.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. McWhinney): Are there any other matters then? If not, I'll declare the meeting adjourned and thank you all for coming along so promptly. Thank you very much. Merci beaucoup.
The meeting is adjourned.