Issue 01

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

THURSDAY, AUGUST 31, 1995
(Meeting No. 1)

[Text]

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 9:37 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, for the purpose of organization.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators Lise Bacon, J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver.

Representing the House of Commons: Don Boudria, François Langlois, Peter Milliken, Jerry Pickard.

Acting Members present: Ken Epp for Elwin Hermanson; Morris Bodnar for Derek Lee; Stan Keyes for Ted McWhinney; John O'Reilly for Marlene Catterall.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Pursuant to the Orders of Reference adopted by the Senate on Wednesday, June 28, 1995, and by the House of Commons on Monday, June 19, 1995, the Committee commenced consideration of a code of conduct for Senators and Members of the House of Commons.

The Joint Clerk (Senate) presided over the election of the Joint Chair (Senate).

Peter Milliken moved,--That Senator Donald Oliver be named Joint Chair (Senate).

And the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to.

The Joint Clerk (House of Commons) presided over the election of the Joint Chair (House of Commons).

François Langlois moved,--That Peter Milliken be named Joint Chair (House of Commons).

And the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to.

Don Boudria moved,--That the Committee retain the services of one or more Research Officers from the Library of Parliament, as needed, to assist the Committee in its work.

And the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to .

Senator Gauthier moved,--That the Joint Clerks of the Committee be authorized to receive documents and that such documents be translated before distribution.

And the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to.

Stan Keyes moved,--That reasonable travelling expenses be paid as per the regulations established by the Committee on Internal Economy of the Senate and the Board of Economy of the House of Commons, to witnesses before the Committee, and that such payment of expenses be limited to one representative per organization.

And the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to.

It was agreed,--That the Committee form a Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure.

Senator Gauthier moved,--That the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of six members: the Senate Joint Chair and another, Liberal Senator, and the House Joint Chair and one more Member of each of the three parties of the House.

Ken Epp moved in amendment,--That the words "Liberal Senator" be deleted from the motion.

And debate arising thereon,

The question being put on the amendment, it was defeated by a show of hands.

And the question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Senator Gauthier moved,--That the Standing Orders of the Chamber of the Joint Chair prevail while that Joint Chair presides.

And debate arising thereon,

It was agreed,--That further consideration of the motion be suspended.

It was agreed,--That the Committee print today's deliberations, and that the method of printing the Committee's future proceedings be considered by the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure.

The Committee proceeded to a briefing by research officers of the Library of Parliament.

At 11:22 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Joint-Chairs.

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1995
(Meeting No. 2)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 4:10 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairman, Donald Oliver (Senator), presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver, Peter Stollery.

Representing the House of Commons: Colleen Beaumier, Marlene Catterall, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken, Carolyn Parrish.

Acting Member present: Michel Bellehumeur for Gilles Duceppe.

Associate Member present: Ken Epp.

Other Senator present: Senator Marcel Prud'homme.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witness: From Industry Canada: Howard Wilson, Assistant Deputy Registrar General, Ethics Counsellor's Office, Conflict of Interest (Public Registry).

Pursuant to the Orders of Reference adopted by the Senate on Wednesday, June 28, 1995, and by the House of Commons on Monday, June 19, 1995, the Committee resumed consideration of a code of conduct for Senators and Members of the House of Commons. (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Thursday, August 31, 1995, Issue No. 1.)

Howard Wilson made a statement and answered questions.

At 6:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Joint Chairs.

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 1995
(Meeting No. 3)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 6:55 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Senator Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators Lise Bacon, J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver, Peter Stollery.

Representing the House of Commons: Colleen Beaumier, Mauril Bélanger, Michel Bellehumeur, Bonnie Brown, Marlene Catterall, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witness: From the Prime Minister's Office: Hon. Mitchell Sharp, P.C., O.C.

Mitchell Sharp made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 8:32 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Joint Chairs.

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 1995
(Meeting No. 4)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 3:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators Lise Bacon, Consiglio Di Nino, J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver, Mira Spivak.

Representing the House of Commons: Colleen Beaumier, Michel Bellehumeur, Marlene Catterall, Ken Epp, Gordon Kirkby, Walt Lastewka, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken.

Other Senator present: Senator H.A. (Bud) Olson.

Other Member present: Carolyn Parrish.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Senate: Mark Audcent, Assistant Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel. From the House of Commons: Diane Davidson, General Legal Counsel.

The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.

The Joint Chairmen presented the First Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure, which is as follows:

Your Sub-Committee met on Thursday, September 28, 1995, to consider future business and agreed to the following recommendations:

1. Witnesses

It was agreed,--That the lists of suggested witnesses prepared by the Library of Parliament be adopted.

2. Advertising

It was agreed,--That the Committee retain Canada Newswire Ltd. to distribute a press release to the national English and French media.

3. Deadline for reporting

It was agreed,--That the Committee seek to extend its deadline to report to March 29, 1996.

4. Printing of issues

It was agreed,--That the House be responsible for the production of the committee transcript and that the translated and edited text of the meetings be given to the Senate for printing in Senate format, and that the House pay the Senate for 66% of its printing cost.

5. Days of meeting

It was agreed,--That the Committee meet on Monday evenings from 7:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. and on Wednesday afternoons from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.

On motion of Ken Epp, it was agreed,--That the First Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure be concurred in.

Ordered - That the Joint Chairs report to their Houses that the deadline for reporting contained in its Orders of Reference be extended to March 29, 1996.

The witnesses answered questions.

At 5:19 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Joint Chairs.

MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1995
(Meeting No. 5)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 7:05 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Senator Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver, Mira Spivak, Peter Stollery.

Representing the House of Commons: Michel Bellehumeur, Don Boudria, Ken Epp, Charles Hubbard, Gurbax Malhi, Peter Milliken, Carolyn Parrish, Paul Szabo.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witness: From Carleton University: Professor Sharon Sutherland, Department of Political Science.

Sharon Sutherland made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 9:01 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1995
(Meeting No. 6)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 7:30 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Senator Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver, Mira Spivak.

Representing the House of Commons: Colleen Beaumier, Marlene Catterall, Marlene Cowling, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witness: From Democracy Watch: Duff Conacher, Co-ordinator.

Duff Conacher made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 9:18 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 1995
(Meeting No. 7)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 4:17 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Senator Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators David Angus, Consiglio Di Nino, J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver, Mira Spivak, Peter Stollery.

Representing the House of Commons: Don Boudria, Marlene Catterall, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witness: From the Province of Ontario: Hon. Gregory T. Evans, Integrity Commissioner.

Gregory Evans made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 6:10 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, OCTOBER 23, 1995
(Meeting No. 8)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 3:37 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairman, Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senator J.-R. Gauthier.

Representing the House of Commons: Colleen Beaumier, Don Boudria, Dianne Brushett, Marlene Catterall, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Peter Milliken, Ray Speaker.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Province of Ontario: Hon. Gregory T. Evans, Integrity Commissioner. From the Province of Saskatchewan: Derril G. McLeod, Q.C., Conflict of Interest Commissioner. From the Province of Newfoundland: D. Wayne Mitchell, Commissioner of Members' Interests. From the Province of British Columbia: Hon. E.N. (Ted) Hughes, Commissioner of Conflict of Interest. From the Province of Alberta: Robert C. Clark, Ethics Commissioner.

The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.

At 5:32 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 25, 1995
(Meeting No. 9)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 4:40 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairman, Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senator J.-R. Gauthier.

Representing the House of Commons: Don Boudria, Marlene Catterall, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken, Carolyn Parrish, George Rideout.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: As individual: Brian Grainger, consultant in ethics and conflict of interest. From EthicScan Canada: David Nitkin, Head.

The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.

At 5:14 o'clock p.m., Senator J.-R. Gauthier took the Chair.

At 5:30 o'clock, p.m., Peter Milliken resumed the Chair.

At 6:35 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 1995
(Meeting No. 10)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 4:40 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairman, Donald Oliver, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators David Angus, J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver.

Representing the House of Commons: Colleen Beaumier, Don Boudria, Marlene Catterall, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, George Rideout.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From Guelph University: Maureen Mancuso, Associate Professor, Department of Political Studies. From McMaster University: Michael Atkinson, Professor, Department of Political Studies and Associate Vice-President (Academic). From York University: Ian Greene, Professor, Department of Political Science.

The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.

At 6:35 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 1995
(Meeting No. 11)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 7:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 253-D, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators J.-R. Gauthier, Donald Oliver and Peter Stollery.

Representing the House of Commons: Michel Bellehumeur, Don Boudria, Paul DeVillers, Ken Epp, Ron Fewchuk, Peter Milliken and Carolyn Parrish.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: James Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From The Ottawa Citizen: Russell Mills, Publisher and President. From The Ottawa Sun: John Paton, Publisher and Chief Executive Officer.

The witnesses made opening statements and answered questions.

At 9:38 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 1995
(Meeting No. 12)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 7:45 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators J.-R. Gauthier and Donald Oliver.

Representing the House of Commons: Don Boudria, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken and John Richardson.

Acting Senator present: Peter Bosa for Lise Bacon.

Other Senators present: The Honourable Senators Leo Kolber and Lorna Milne.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: James Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From Southam News: Don McGillivary. From the Globe and Mail: Hugh Winsor.

The witnesses made statements and answered questions.

At 9:23 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1995
(Meeting No. 13)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met in camera at 11:10 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 112-N, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators Consiglio Di Nino, J.-R. Gauthier and Donald Oliver.

Representing the House of Commons: Don Boudria, Murray Calder, Ken Epp, Bonnie Hickey, Gurbax Malhi, Ted McWhinney, Peter Milliken and John Richardson.

Acting Senator present: Peter Bosa for Lise Bacon.

Other Member present: Marlene Catterall.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: James Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

The Committee proceeded to consider future business.

It was agreed,--That the name of the Committee in French be changed to ``Comité mixte spécial sur un code de conduite'', and that this be presented to the two Chambers as the Second Report.

ORDERED: That the Joint Chairs report to their Houses requesting that the name of the Committee in French be changed.

It was agreed,--That the draft budget be adopted for presentation to the Committee on Internal Economy of the Senate and the Board of Internal Economy of the House of Commons.

It was agreed,--That the Senate reimburse the House of Commons 33.5% of the cost for producing issues, and that, notwithstanding the motion adopted on Thursday, September 28, 1995, the House reimburse the Senate for 66.5% of its printing costs.

At 12:06 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 29, 1995
(Meeting No. 14)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 4:45 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 112-N, Centre Block, the Joint Chair, Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators J.-R. Gauthier and Mira Spivak.

Representing the House of Commons: Marlene Catterall, Gurbax Malhi, Peter Milliken.

Acting Senator present: Peter Bosa for Lise Bacon.

Other Member present: George Rideout.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: James Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From SAMCI: Susan Murray, President. As individual: Hon. Jean-Jacques Blais, Consultant.

Susan Murray made an opening statement and answered questions.

Senator Mira Spivak took the Chair.

The Honourable Jean-Jacques Blais made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 6:25 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, DECEMBER 4, 1995
(Meeting No. 15)

The Special Joint Committee on a Code of Conduct met at 7:43 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Joint Chairmen, Donald Oliver and Peter Milliken, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators Donald Oliver and Mira Spivak.

Representing the House of Commons: Don Boudria, Ken Epp, Gurbax Malhi, Peter Milliken, John Richardson.

Acting Senator present: Senator Lorna Milne.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: James Robertson and Margaret Young, Research Officers.

Witness: From Queen's University: Dr. C.E.S. Franks, Professor, Department of Political Studies.

Professor Franks made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 9:07 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Ellen Savage

Joint Clerk of the Committee