[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Thursday, March 7, 1996
.1106 
[English]
The Clerk of the Committee: Hon. members, I see a quorum. Your first order of business is to elect a chair. I'm ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Ms Bridgman (Surrey North): I have a motion for vice-chair, please.
Mr. Murphy (Annapolis Valley - Hants): Madam Clerk, I nominate Ray Bonin as chair of the committee.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: First I'd like to thank you for the confidence you have put in me. I will try to serve you to the best of my ability, as I tried before Christmas.
Now we will open nominations for vice-chair.
[Translation]
Mr. Dumas (Argenteuil - Papineau): I move that Mr. Claude Bachand be elected Vice-Chair of the committee.
[English]
Ms Bridgman: Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I gave notice.
The Chairman: I opened nominations for vice-chair. It was moved by Mr. Dumas
[Translation]
that Mr. Claude Bachand be designated Vice-Chair of the committee.
[English]
Are there other nominations?
Ms Bridgman: Mr. Chair, yes, I'd like to nominate John Duncan as vice-chair.
Mr. Duncan (North Island - Powell River): I would like to speak to the motion. I assume it has been seconded.
The Chairman: We don't need a seconder.
Are there other nominations?
Mr. Duncan: I'd like to speak to the motion.
The Chairman: Just a moment. Let me run the meeting.
Mr. Duncan: I don't want to be overrun at the meeting.
The Chairman: I will follow the procedures and I assure you that you will be entitled to all the privileges and rights that are yours.
Mr. Duncan, do you accept?
Mr. Duncan: Yes.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Bachand, do you accept the nomination?
Mr. Bachand (Saint-Jean): Yes.
[English]
The Chairman: There will be an election. I will ask the two candidates if they want two minutes each. Is that enough to speak?
Mr. Duncan: I want to speak to the motion. Are you talking about something different in respect to qualifications?
The Chairman: You want to speak to the motion of the nomination?
Mr. Duncan: Yes. Every motion is debatable.
The Chairman: Do you want to speak to the motion or to the nomination?
Mr. Duncan: To the motion. The two minutes you were talking about -
The Chairman: I don't know what it is you want to speak to, so I'll give you the floor.
Mr. Duncan: I'd like to ask the will of the committee on conducting our elections this morning by secret ballot. Other committees have conducted secret-ballot elections with more than one name at a time standing for the committee's consideration. I ask the committee if we could conduct today's business of elections just as we were elected to come here, which was by secret ballot. Our election to this House was conducted by secret ballot so Canadian citizens would feel free to vote their consciences, and I say to the committee that we want members on the government side to feel free to vote their consciences, especially when we come to vice-chair.
As chief government whip, Don Boudria -
Mrs. Payne (St. John's West): On a point of order, I'm not sure, Mr. Chair, but this seems to be a bit out of order to me.
The Chairman: It's irregular, but I have recognized the speaker. Thank you.
.1110
Mr. Duncan: As chief government whip, Don Boudria said during a press conference in the Charles Lynch press theatre on September 29, 1995:
- The government does not choose its own opposition.... I, as government whip, have no such
power. If I had such power and were to exercise it, you folks would be trying to lynch me this
morning and rightfully so. It would be....
Mr. Duncan: I move that we conduct this morning's elections for vice-chair by secret ballot.
The Chairman: Seconded by Ms Bridgman.
Motion negatived
Ms Bridgman: I would like to make a motion that we have a recorded vote, then.
The Chairman: I think you only need to request a recorded vote. I'm granting that request.
Ms Bridgman: Thank you.
The Chairman: We'll vote on the first nomination.
[Translation]
Mr. Dumas moves that Mr. Bachand be designated second Vice-Chair of the committee.
[English]
Mr. Duncan: On a point of order, does the chair cast a ballot only in the case of a tie?
The Chairman: Not on a recorded vote.
Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 2
The Chairman: Mr. Bachand is the second vice-chair of this committee.
I will open nominations for the first vice-chair.
Mr. DeVillers (Simcoe North): I nominate Mr. Finlay.
The Chairman: Are there other nominations? Nominations are closed.
Mr. Finlay is the first vice-chair.
Mr. Finlay (Oxford): That was the shortest time.
The Chairman: Now for routine motions.
Constitution of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure: if I remember correctly, this steering committee consists of the chair, the vice-chairs, and one member of the Reform Party. Is that correct? Does everyone agree that's what we had before and that's what we continue with?
Mr. Murphy: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: Mr. Duncan, Ms Bridgman, will you advise the clerk which one of you will be a member, or do you want to do that now?
Mr. Duncan: Is this the steering committee?
The Chairman: Yes, the steering committee.
Mr. Duncan: We'll advise.
The Chairman: Thank you.
The printing of minutes of proceedings: I need a mover that the committee print its minutes of proceedings as established by the Board of Internal Economy. Do I have a motion?
Mr. Anawak (Nunatsiaq): I so move.
Motion agreed to
.1115
The Chairman: I need a mover that the chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive testimony and authorize the publication of evidence when a quorum is not present, provided at least three members of the committee are present, including a member of the opposition.
Mr. Murphy: I so move.
Ms Bridgman: May I speak to this for a moment? On this particular motion, without a quorum present.... It's just for witnesses, isn't it? It's not for decision-making -
The Chairman: That's right.
Ms Bridgman: No decisions can be -
The Chairman: It's strictly to hear evidence; no votes.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: I need a mover that the committee retain the services of one or more research officers from the Library of Parliament, as needed, to assist the committee in its work, under the direction of the chair. Do I have a mover?
Mr. Bachand: I so move.
Motion agreed to
[Translation]
The Chairman: The next motion concerns witness expenses:
- That, as established by the Board of Internal Economy, and if requested, reasonable travelling
expenses be reimbursed to witnesses who have appeared before the committee, up to a
maximum of two representatives of any organization.
[English]
Mr. Duncan: I so move.
The Chairman: Do you want to discuss this before...?
Mr. Duncan: It's not specific to witnesses' expenses. It's specific to expenses in general.
The Chairman: Okay, we'll deal with it afterwards.
Motion agreed to
[Translation]
The Chairman: We are now ready to entertain the motion regarding the distribution of papers:
- That the Clerk of the committee be authorized to distribute documents received from the public
in the official language received, with translation to follow.
- Would anyone care to move the motion?
Mr. DeVillers: I so move.
The Chairman: Questions or debate? Ms Bridgman.
Ms Bridgman: On this particular one, we had some difficulty.... I'm not sure if it was on this committee or not, but when some presentations were made and they were made in one language and the translation was not available, there was some difficulty at the time. Actually, I think on occasion we did not accept the presentation. I'm not sure if it was this committee, but I'm wondering if this would be a problem, because it doesn't indicate a time span for translation to follow. It could be a week, it could be two weeks or whatever. I'm wondering if we could narrow it down a little. Or is that necessary, in the opinion of the committee?
The Chairman: In this motion we're authorizing the clerk to distribute. If we have any problems with the translation, this is something we can resolve internally. It's an issue discussed at the committee of chairpersons from committees.
I can assure you I haven't received any complaints since I've been chair. I don't think it has been a problem here. But if it becomes a problem, please bring it to the attention of the committee and it will be addressed.
Ms Bridgman: I think my point here, then, would be consideration in relation to time: what kind of time span there is between the receiving in one language and it coming out in the other. I base that on an experience in the health committee. When the French translation came out it was translated but it wasn't quite exactly the same meaning or intent as in the English version, and that became very important to the committee at the time.
I just bring that to the attention of the committee.
The Chairman: As I said, we had no problems on this committee, but if we do, we certainly want to hear about it and the committee will decide the proper course.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: Next is working lunches. As you know, this committee is not a big spender. We don't even have coffee at our meetings. I'll address that issue. We decided before Christmas that if a member of this committee puts in a motion that we get coffee and we have a majority vote, we will have coffee, juices, and whatever the motion includes. Until we get that motion we don't have coffee. We're a poor committee.
Here's a motion for working lunches. We haven't ordered sandwiches once since I've sat on this committee, but if the need comes, we should have the authority to do it. Do I have a mover?
Mr. Finlay: I so move.
.1120
Mr. Duncan: Is there debate on the motion?
The Chairman: Go ahead.
This is just on lunches if we're working through lunch.
Mr. Duncan: Coffee is a part of lunch, though.
The Chairman: That is part of a lunch.
Mr. Duncan: My point is a light one. Being without coffee leads to there being an increased onus on the chair to keep the meetings lively and exciting so that we all will stay bright and alert and we won't need these artificial stimulants.
The Chairman: What you're saying, Mr. Duncan, is that if I get a motion to order coffee, it will be because it's becoming difficult to stay awake. So it will reflect on me.
Mr. Duncan: Yes, because the chair's not doing his job properly. One could infer that, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it.
Mr. Finlay: Since we've discussed it lightly, I will too. If we're going to have meetings early in the morning, then you will get a motion that we will have coffee.
The Chairman: Without trying to set the tone for the vote when it comes, I assure you that when that motion comes I'll vote in favour of it.
Mr. Anawak: If it's an early-morning meeting and it's a short one, then the coffee's just starting by the time the meeting is over. Would it be good for the next meeting, two days later?
The Chairman: Those are problems we can circumvent.
Mr. Finlay: Mr. Chair, pass the motion. You have the authority, and I assume that you will assume the authority in a reasonable manner. That's why I moved the motion.
The Chairman: I'll be quite candid with you. If we don't pass the motion, then there will be no food. That's for sure. I won't order a meal without checking with the committee, but if we don't pass the motion and we vote unanimously to have lunch, we can't pay for it. It can't be paid for without this motion. That's all this is.
Ms Bridgman: To add to the debate, if in the wisdom of the committee it is decided that we shall work through a lunch period, then I am for this motion. But if it means that we would be bringing lunch in and dispensing with the work of the committee while we have lunch, then it would be just as easy to go downstairs or somewhere else. With that being on the record, I certainly think we can leave that to the discretion of the committee when the situation will arise.
The Chairman: That's what will happen. This is just to authorize payment if we decide to order a few sandwiches.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: Next is other business. Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Duncan: I have one piece of other business. It relates to the fact that in my experiences on the steering committee - I think you're the fourth clerk we've gone through, but I'm not sure - I've never felt that I've received a statement of account. Well, maybe once or twice I sort of knew what was actually going on in terms of our budget allotment as a committee: what we'd spent and how much was left and where we spent it. This is quite basic information.
Maybe the chair has been privy to that, but it hasn't been a regular order of business for the steering committee.
From just a reasonable accountability and information point of view.... I'm not looking for anything specific in that regard; I just think it's something that should be done in the normal course of events. So I ask that this be within normal procedures for that committee.
The Chairman: That's reasonable, and it will be done.
Is there any other business? Ms Bridgman.
Ms Bridgman: I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place, but as we're now back, I would like to know the standing of the subcommittee on education. Is that still in effect? Actually, I think I'd like to know the standing of any business that this committee was doing prior to the break.
The Chairman: To my knowledge, the only incomplete business is the education study.Mr. Bertrand is still chair and the committee has to complete that work. We will continue the project.
.1125
Mr. Duncan: Just to round that out -
The Chairman: If I could get back to Ms Bridgman's point, a good suggestion was made, that we should have a motion to re-establish the committee. Since most of the work has been done, we can have a blanket motion to have the same committee.
Ms Bridgman: Yes. We're at the wrapping-up stage.
The Chairman: If you're prepared to deal with that now, then we should do it now.
Ms Bridgman: I am prepared.
The Chairman: It is moved by Ms Bridgman that the Sub-Committee on Aboriginal Education, as it existed on the last day of the first session of the present parliament, be reinstated for the purpose of completing its report on aboriginal education.
Are you satisfied with that?
Ms Bridgman: That requires a motion.
The Chairman: Let's do it.
So it has been moved. It is seconded by Mr. Murphy.
Motion agreed to
Mr. Duncan: This is not other business as much as it is explanatory, since we have some people who weren't here before.
In the last part of the past session, the main committee completed a co-management report. We have initiated no new business since then. So it's really starting from square one again, beyond the previous motion.
The Chairman: Is there any other business? No?
This meeting stands adjourned.