Issue 09

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

TUESDAY, MARCH 4, 1997
(Meeting No. 104)

[Text]

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:38 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney, Geoff Regan, George S. Rideout and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Diane Ablonczy for Jack Ramsay.

Associate Member present: Christiane Gagnon.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Department of Justice: Yvan Roy, Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy; Catherine Kane, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee began consideration of the subject matter of Bill C-46, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (production of records in sexual offence proceedings).

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Yvan Roy and Catherine Kane each made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 10:45 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Richard Dupuis

Clerk of the Committee

TUESDAY, MARCH 4, 1997
(Meeting No. 105)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:45 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Nick Discepola, Gordon Kirkby, François Langlois, John Maloney, George S. Rideout, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Val Meredith for Jack Ramsay; Russell MacLellan for Paul DeVillers.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Appearing: Nick Discepola, M.P., Parliamentary Secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada.

Witnesses: From the Department of Justice: Yvan Roy, Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy; Dave Whellams, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy; Jennifer Trottier, Senior Policy Analyst, Corrections Policy. From the Ministry of the Solicitor General Canada: Richard Zubrycki, Director General, Corrections.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Monday, October 7, 1996 relating to Bill C-55, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (high risk offenders), the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Criminal Records Act, the Prisons and Reformatories Act and the Department of the Solicitor General Act and resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Friday, March 29, 1996 relating to Bill C-254, An Act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act and the Criminal Code (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Tuesday, December 3, 1996, Issue No. 6).

The witnesses answered questions.

On Clause 1 of Bill C-55

Clause 1 carried on division.

Clause 2 was allowed to stand.

Clause 3 carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 4 be amended by replacing lines 19 to 21 on page 5 with the following:

``nate period.

(4.1) If the application was made after the offender begins to serve the sentence in a case to which paragraphs (2) (a) and (b) apply, the sentence of detention in a penitentiary for an indeterminate period referred to in subsection (4) replaces the sentence that was imposed for the offence for which the offender was convicted.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 4 be amended by adding after line 32 on page 5 the following:

``(6) Any evidence given during the hearing of an application made under subsection (1) by a victim of an offence for which the offender was convicted is deemed also to have been given during any hearing under paragraph (5)(a) held with respect to the offender.''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 4 be amended by

(a) replacing line 33 on page 6 with the following:

``(3) Subject to subsection (3.1), (4) and (5), if the''

``b) adding after line 45 on page 6 the following:

``(3.1) The court may not impose a sentence under paragraph (3) (a) and the sentence that was imposed for the offence for which the offender was convicted stands despite the offender's being found to be a long-term offender, if the application was one that

(a) was made after the offender begins to serve the sentence in a case to which paragraphs 753(2)(a) and (b) apply; and

(b) was treated as an application under this section further to the court deciding to do so under paragraph 753(5)(a).''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 4 be amended by replacing line 39 on page 7 with the following:

``in subsection 134.2(2) of the Corrections''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 4 be amended by adding after line 3 on page 8 the following:

``(4) The applicant must give notice of an application under subsection (3) to the Attorney General at the time the application is made.''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

The question being put on Clause 4 as amended, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 5 carried on division.

Clauses 6 to 8 inclusive carried severally on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 9 be amended

(a) by replacing lines 11 to 17 on page 12 with the following:

``810.2 (1) Any person who fears on reasonable grounds that another person will commit a serious personal injury offence, as that expression is defined in section 752, may, with the consent of the Attorney General, lay an information before a provincial court''

(b) by replacing line 27 on page 12 with the following:

``evidence adduced that the informant''

``application of the informant, of the Attorney General or of the''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 9 be amended by replacing line 22 on page 12 with the following:

``an information under subsection (1) may''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 9 be amended by replacing line 35 on page 12 with the following:

``(5) and (6), that the provincial court judge''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

John Maloney moved,--That Clause 9 be amended by replacing lines 20 to 25 on page 13 with the following:

``authority, and where the provincial court judge decides that it is desirable for the defendant to so report, the provincial court''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 9 be amended by adding after line 32 on page 14 the following:

(3) If Bill C-27, entitled An Act to amend the Criminal Code (child prostitution, child sex tourism, criminal harassment and female genital mutilation), is assented to, then, on the later of the coming into force of subsection 9(1) of this Act and section 4 of that Act, paragraph 264(4) (a) of the Criminal Code, as enacted by that section 4, is replaced by the following:

(a) the terms or conditions of an order made pursuant to section 161 or a recognizance entered into pursuant to section 810, 810.1 or 810.2; or''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

The question being put on Clause 9 as amended, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 10 carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 11 be amended by replacing line 44 on page 14 with the following:

``753.1(3) (b), or subparagraph 759(3) (a) (i), 759(4) (a) (ii) or 759(4.2) (a) (i) of the Criminal Code;''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 11, as amended, carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 12 be amended by replacing lines 4 and 5 on page 15 with the following:

``vised by a long-term supervision order is deemed to''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 12, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 13 and 14 inclusive, carried severally on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 15 be amended by replacing lines 24 and 25 on page 15 with the following:

``be supervised by a long-term supervision order has''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 15, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 16 and 17 inclusive, carried severally on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 18 be amended by replacing lines 30 and 31 on page 16 with the following:

``supervised by a long-term supervision order is deemed to''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 18, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 19 carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 20 be amended by

(a) replacing line 11 on page 19 with the following:

``scribed in subsection 120.2(2), the''

(b) replacing line 23 on page 19 with the following:

``with subsection 120.2(2), less three''

``(b) Subsection 119(1.2) of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act is replaced by''

(d) replacing line 5 on page 20 with the following:

``scribed in subsection 120.2(2), the''

(e) adding the following after line 9 on page 20:

``(a) the period that expires when all but one fifth of the period of imprisonment the offender is to serve without eligibility for parole has been served, and

(b) the portion of the sentence that must be served before full parole may be granted to the offender, determined in accordance with subsection 120.2(2), less three years.''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to.

Clause 20, as amended, carried on division

Clauses 21 to 26 inclusive, carried on division.

Clauses 27 to 29 inclusive, carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 30 be amended by

(a) replacing lines 5 and 6 on page 23 with the following:

``a long-term supervision order is subject to the conditions''

(b) replacing lines 31 and 32 on page 23 with the following:

``pursuant to a long-term supervision order shall com-''

``who is required to be supervised by a long-term supervision order.''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 30, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 31 to 32 inclusive, carried severally on division.

On new Clause 32.1

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Bill C-55 be amended by adding after line 23 on page 24 the following:

``32.1 Subsection 135(9.1) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(9.1) Where an offender whose parole or statutory release has not been terminated or revoked is incarcerated as a result of an additional sentence for an offence under an Act of Parliament, the parole or statutory release, as the case may be, is revoked on the day on which the offender is incarcerated as a result of the additional sentence.''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

The question being put on new Clause 32.1, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 33 be amended by

(a) replacing lines 30 to 32 on page 24 with the following:

``condition of a long-term supervision order or a condition referred to in section''

(b) replacing line 16 on page 25 with the following:

``a long-term supervision order,''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 33 be amended by replacing lines 3 and 4 on page 25 with the following:

``ment to custody is necessary, to custody until the suspension is can-''

The question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 33, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 34, 35 and 36 carried severally, on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 37 be amended by replacing lines 2 and 3 on page 28 with the following:

``supervised by a long-term supervision order is deemed to''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 37, as amended, carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 38 be amended by replacing lines 8 to 10 on page 28 with the following:

``being supervised pursuant to an order for long-term supervision, within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act is not included in the calculation of the''

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 38, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 39 carried on division.

Paddy Torsney moved,--That Clause 40 be amended by replacing lines 12 and 13 on page 29 with the following:

``long-term supervision within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act;

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to, on division.

Clause 40, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 41 carried on division.

Clause 2 carried on division.

The Title carried on division.

The Bill, as amended, carried on division.

ORDERED,--That Bill C-55 be reprinted as a working copy for the use of the House of Commons at Report Stage.

ORDERED,--That the Chair report Bill C-55, with amendments to the House, as the Ninth Report of the Committee.

At 4:22 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:30 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

The Committee proceeded to clause by clause consideration of Bill C-254.

Clauses 1 to 12 were severally negatived.

After debate, the question being put on Clauses 13, 14 and 15, they were severally negatived.

Clauses 16 to 32 were severally negatived.

Val Meredith moved,--That the Preamble be amended by deleting lines 19 to 27 on page 1.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to.

The question being put on the Preamble, as amended, it was negatived.

On the Title

The question being put on the Title, it was negatived.

The question being put on the Bill, it was negatived.

George Rideout moved,--That the Bill not be reported back to the House.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to, on the following division:

YEAS

Nick Discepola
George Rideout
Gordon Kirkby
Paddy Torsney--(5)
Russell MacLellan

NAYS

François Langlois
Val Meredith
John Maloney
Andrew Telegdi--(4)

At 4:45 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Richard Dupuis

Clerk of the Committee

Miriam Burke

Co-Clerk of the Committee

THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 1997
(Meeting No. 106)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:55 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Acting Chair, Paddy Torsney, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Jean Landry for Michel Bellehumeur.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the National Association of Women and the Law (NAWL): Nicole Tellier, Member, Criminal Law Working Group; Diane Oleskin, Member, Criminal Law Working Group. From the Women's Legal Education Action Fund (LEAF): Jennifer Scott, Director of Litigation; Sheila McIntyre.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee resumed consideration of the subject matter of Bill C-46, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (production of records in sexual offence proceedings) (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Tuesday, March 4, 1997 Issue No. 9).

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Sheila McIntyre and Jennifer Scott from the Woman's Legal Education Action Fund (LEAF) each made an opening statement.

Nicole Tellier and Diane Oleskin from the National Association of Women and the Law (NAWL) each made an opening statement.

The witnesses answered questions.

At 11:17 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 1997
(Meeting No. 107)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Jean Landry for Michel Bellehumeur.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Canadian Mental Health Association: Richard Drewry, Co-Chair; Mary Marshall, Chair, Legal Sub-Committee. As individual: Dr. H. Merskey, London Psychiatric Hospital.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Richard Drewry and Mary Marshall from the Canadian Mental Health Association each made an opening statement

Dr. H. Merskey made an opening statement.

The witnesses answered questions.

At 12:55 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 1997
(Meeting No. 108)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:40 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Paul DeVillers, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Jean-Paul Marchand for Michel Bellehumeur; Diane Ablonczy for Jack Ramsay and Christiane Gagnon for Pierre de Savoye,

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the ``Action ontarienne contre la violence faite aux femmes'': Andrée Côté, Legal Advisor, ``Comité coordonnateur''. From the Ontario Coalition of Rape Crisis Centres: Anne Marie Aikins, President. From the Metro Action Committee on Public Violence Against Women and Children (METRAC): Susan Bazilli, Legal Director.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Anne Marie Aikins from the Ontario Coalition of Rape Crisis Centres made an opening statement.

Andrée Côté from the ``Action ontarienne contre la violence faite aux femmes'' made an opening statement.

Susan Bazilli from the Metro Action Committee on Public Violence Against Women and Children (METRAC) made an opening statement.

The witnesses answered questions.

At 11:25 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 1997
(Meeting No. 109)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Paul DeVillers, John Maloney, George S. Rideout, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Christiane Gagnon for Pierre de Savoye and Diane Ablonczy for Jack Ramsay.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the ``Regroupement québécois des CALACS'': Michèle Roy, Co-responsible; Claudette Vandal.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Claudette Vandal and Michèle Roy each made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 12:20 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Richard Dupuis

Clerk of the Committee

TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 1997
(Meeting No. 110)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met in camera at 3:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 306, West Block, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Michel Bellehumeur, Shaughnessy Cohen, Paul DeVillers, Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney, Jack Ramsay, George S. Rideout, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Roger Gallaway for Geoff Regan.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Patricia Begin, Research Officer.

In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 108(2) and the Committee's motion to adduce evidence heard in the first session of this Parliament, the Committee resumed consideration of the comprehensive review of the Young Offenders Act (Phase II), in particular, issues relating to youth crime, the youth justice system and the operation and implementation of the Young Offenders Act (See Minutes of Proceedings dated Tuesday, March 12, 1996, Issue No. 1).

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of its Draft Report.

At 5:10 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Richard Dupuis

Clerk of the Committee

Miriam Burke

Co-Clerk of the Committee

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 12, 1997
(Meeting No. 111)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Paul DeVillers, George S. Rideout, Andrew Telegdi and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Diane Ablonczy for Jack Ramsay and Christiane Gagnon for François Langlois.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the National Council of Women of Canada: Margaret MacGee, Chairperson; Julie C. Johnstone, Executive Assistant.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Margaret MacGee and Julie C. Johnstone each made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 4:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1997
(Meeting No. 112)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:40 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Vice-Chair, Paddy Torsney, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Paul DeVillers, Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney, George S. Rideout and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Rex Crawford for Shaughnessy Cohen and Christiane Gagnon for Michel Bellehumeur.

Other Member present: John Bryden.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst.

Witnesses: From the Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers: Marvin R. Bloos, Chair. From the Criminal Lawyers Association: Bruce Durno, President; Irwin Koziebrocki, Treasurer and Co-Chair.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Marvin R. Bloos from the Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers made an opening statement.

Bruce Durno and Irwin Koziebrocki from the Criminal Lawyers Association each made an opening statement.

The witnesses answered questions.

At 11:20 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1997
(Meeting No. 113)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:49 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Vice-Chair, Paddy Torsney, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney, George S. Rideout and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Rex Crawford for Shaughnessy Cohen.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witness: From the National Association of Women and the Law: Christine Lonsdale, McGill University.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

Christine Lonsdale made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 12:10 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, MARCH 17, 1997
(Meeting No. 114)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:25 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Shaughnessy Cohen, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Shaughnessy Cohen, Paul DeVillers, Art Hanger, Gordon Kirkby, John Maloney and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Christiane Gagnon for Michel Bellehumeur.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon and Patricia Begin, Research Officers.

Witnesses: Christine Boyle, Faculty of Law, University of British Columbia; Prof. Marilyn MacCrimmon, Faculty of Law, University of British Columbia; From the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres: Lee Lakeman.

On the subject matter of Bill C-46

By videoteleconference from Vancouver, Prof. Christine Boyle and Prof. Marilyn MacCrimmon each made an opening statement and answered questions.

By videoteleconference from Vancouver, Lee Lakeman from Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 4:30 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Richard Dupuis

Clerk of the Committee