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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1996
(Meeting No. 1)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.

[Translation]

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met in camera at 9:06 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 208, West Block, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Bonnie Hickey, Grant Hill and Joseph Volpe.

Acting Members present: Jerry Pickard for Carolyn Parrish; Pierre de Savoye for Pauline Picard.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.

It was agreed,--That each Sub-Committee member be allowed to have one staff person present at in camera meetings unless there is a decision for a particular meeting to exclude all staff.

It was agreed,--That the Sub-Committee print its Minutes of Proceedings, as established by the Board of Internal Economy.

It was agreed,--That the Chair be authorized to hold meetings in order to receive and authorize the publication of evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that at least three (3) members of the Sub-Committee, including one from the Opposition, be present.

It was agreed,--That, at the discretion of the Chair, reasonable travelling expenses, as per the regulation established by the Board of Internal Economy, be paid to witnesses invited to appear before the Sub-Committee, and that for such payment of expenses a limit of two (2) representatives per organization be established.

It was agreed,--That one transcript of all Committee meetings held in camera be produced to be kept in the Committee Clerk's office for consultation, and that all those transcripts be destroyed at the end of the session.

It was agreed,--That, during the questioning of witnesses, at any meeting of this Sub-Committee, there be allocated, for the first round, ten minutes to the first questioner of each party, and five minutes be allocated to each questioner for the subsequent rounds; and that time permitting, every member or acting member be offered the opportunity to question the witness.

At 9:29 o'clock a.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call to the Chair.

LE MERCREDI 11 DÉCEMBRE 1996
(Séance no 2)
Les témoignages pour cette réunion ne sont pas disponibles parce que la réunion s'est tenue à huis clos.

[Traduction]

Le Sous-comité sur le projet de loi C-47, Loi concernant les techniques de reproduction humaine et les opérations commerciales liées à la reproduction humaine du Comité permanent de la santé se réunit aujourd'hui à huis clos, à 15 h 39, dans la pièce 269 de l'édifice de l'Ouest, sous la présidence de Bonnie Hickey (présidente).

Membres du Sous-comité présents: Colleen Beaumier, Grant Hill, Carolyn Parrish, Pauline Picard et Joseph Volpe.

Aussi présentes: Du Service de recherche de la Bibliothèque du Parlement: Nancy Miller Chenier et Marilyn Pilon, attachées de recherche.

Le Sous-comité examine ses travaux futurs.

Il est convenu,--Que le Sous-comité invite tous les intéressés à présenter des mémoires écrits, en vue de retenir de 10 à 15 témoins, en tant que groupe ou individu.

Il est convenu,--Qu'un budget soit établi et soumis le plus tôt possible à l'approbation du Comité permanent de la santé et, par la suite, au Sous-comité du budget du Comité de liaison.

À 16 h 16, le Sous-comité s'ajourne jusqu'à nouvelle convocation de la présidente.

THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 1997
(Meeting No. 3)

[Translation]

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met at 9:10 o'clock a.m., this day, in Room 209, West Block, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Colleen Beaumier, Bonnie Hickey, Carolyn Parrish and Pauline Picard.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Department of Health: André Juneau, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Consultation Branch; Phyllis Colvin, Acting Director, Health Policy and Information Directorate, Policy and Consultation Branch; Susan Zimmerman, Legal Counsel.

The Order of Reference dated Tuesday, November 5, 1996, being read as follows:

ORDERED,--That Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Health.

The Chair called Clause 2.

The witnesses made a presentation and answered questions.

At 10:01 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 10:08 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed in camera to discuss future business.

It was agreed,--That the tentative witness list be approved.

At 10:20 o'clock a.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, MARCH 17, 1997
(Meeting No. 4)

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met at 3:39 o'clock p.m., this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Colleen Beaumier, Bonnie Hickey, Carolyn Parrish, Pauline Picard and Joseph Volpe.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Canadian Fertility and Andrology Society: Dr. R. Rittmaster, Chair, Government Relation Committee; Dr. A. Leader, Vice-President; Dr. N. Tanphaichitr, Member. From the «Institut de médecine de reproduction de Montréal Inc.»: Dr. Pierre Miron. From the Canadian Medical Association: Dr. Judith C. Kazimirski, President; Dr. John Williams, Director, Ethics. From the Canadian Public Health Association: Kathryn Tregunna, Director of Policy and Program Development. From the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada: Dr. Nan Schuurmans, President; Dr. André B. Lalonde, Executive Vice-President. From the Winnipeg Women's Health Clinic: Madeline Boscoe, employee.

The Sub-Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction (See Minutes of Proceedings dated March 13, 1997, Issue No. 1).

The witnesses made a presentation and answered questions.

At 4:33 o'clock p.m., Carolyn Parrish took the Chair.

At 4:37 o'clock p.m., Bonnie Hickey took back the Chair.

At 5:30 o'clock p.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, MARCH 20, 1997
(Meeting No. 5)

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met at 3:34 o'clock p.m., this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Bonnie Hickey, Carolyn Parrish, Pauline Picard and Joseph Volpe.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From British Columbia Civil Liberties Association: K. Stockholder, President; M. Mollard, Policy Director. From McGill University: Alison Harvison Young, Faculty of Law. From the National Council on Bioethics in Human Research (NCBHR): Dr. Richard MacLachlan, Member, Assessment Committee. From Ottawa University: Pran Manga, Professor.

The witnesses made a presentation and answered questions.

At 4:57 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:59 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed in camera.

At 5:10 o'clock p.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 9, 1997
(Meeting No. 6)

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met at 4:27 o'clock p.m., this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Colleen Beaumier, Bonnie Hickey, Keith Martin, Carolyn Parrish, Pauline Picard and Joseph Volpe.

Other Member present: Ken Epp.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the National Action Committee on the Status of Women: Judy Morrison. From the Council of Canadians with Disabilities: Dr. Gregory Wolbring, Member. From the Feminist Alliance on New Reproductive and Genetic Technologies: Fiona Miller. From the National Council of Women of Canada: Linda Newson, Member of the Board of Directors, Chair, Bio-Ethics Committee. From DAWN Canada: Eileen O'Brien, President of the Board. As individual: Louise Vandelac. From Parent Finders of Canada: Jim Kelly, President. From the Adoption Reform Coalition of Ontario: Katherine Kimbell, Co-Chair. From Infertility Network: Diane Allen, Executive Director. From the Infertility Awareness Association of Canada: Nancy Jackson, Member; Norman Barwin, Member. As individuals: Irene and Peter Ryll; Rev. Susan Lukey and Rev. David Robertson. From Gamete Donation Advocacy and Support Group: Co-ordinator. From ReproMed Ltd.: Dr. Alfonso P. Del Valle, Clinical Director; Cathy Ruberto, Assistant Clinical Director. From University Professors Involved in Male Infertility Research and Diagnosis: Dr. Robert Sullivan. From New Reproductive Alternatives Society: Shirley Pratten. From Evangelical Fellowship of Canada: Dr. James Read. From the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops: Msgr. Lord Bishop Bertrand Blanchet. From Alliance for Life: Jakki Jeffs, Executive Director, Ontario Division. As individual: Suzanne Rozell Scorsone, Former Commissioner, Royal Commission on Reproductive Technologies.

Judy Morrison, Dr. Gregory Wolbring, Fiona Miller, Linda Newson, Louise Vandelac and Eileen O'Brien made a presentation and, with Elisabeth Abergel, answered questions.

At 4:45 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:50 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 5:16 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:24 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 5:48 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:52 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Irene Ryll, Rev. David Robertson, Rev. Susan Lukey, Katherine Kimbell, Jim Kelly, Nancy Jackson and Diane Allen made a presentation and, with Peter Ryll and Norman Barwin, answered questions.

At 6:52 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 7:01 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

The co-ordinator of Gamete Donation Advocacy and Support Group, Cathy Ruberto, Dr. Robert Sullivan and Shirley Pratten made a presentation and, with Dr. Alfonso P. Del Valle, answered questions.

At 8:14 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 8:20 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Dr. Suzanne Rozell Scorsone, Dr. James Read, Jakki Jeffs and Lord Bishop Bertrand Blanchet made a presentation and answered questions.

At 9:04 o'clock p.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 1997
(Meeting No. 7)

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met at 3:40 o'clock p.m., this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Colleen Beaumier, Bonnie Hickey, Carolyn Parrish and Pauline Picard.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Canadian Bar Association: Timothy Caulfield, Member, National Health Law Section; Tamra L. Thomson, Director, Legislation and Law Reform. From the National Association of Women and the Law: Prof. Diana Ginn, Member, Health and Reproductive Issues Working Group; prof. Diana Majury, Member, Health and Reproductive Issues Working Group. As individual: Maureen A. McTeer. From the Association of Professors of Obstetrics and Gynaecology of Canada: Dr. Seang Lin Tan. From the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons: Linda Surh, Geneticist, Member of the Medical Bio- Ethics Committee. From the Canadian College of Medical Geneticists: Dr. John Hamerton, Member and former President. From the Canadian Nurses Association: Lesley Myers, Carole Pressault.

On motion of Carolyn Parrish, it was agreed,--That the Chair be authorized to pay for the working luncheon taken when studying Bill C-47 and that the cost be charged to the budget of the Committee.

The witnesses made a presentation and answered questions.

At 4:26 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:34 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 5:23 o'clock p.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

MONDAY, APRIL 14, 1997
(Meeting No. 8)

The Sub-Committee on Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, of the Standing Committee on Health met at 3:45 o'clock p.m., this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Bonnie Hickey, presiding.

Members of the Sub-Committee present: Colleen Beaumier, Bonnie Hickey, Carolyn Parrish and Pauline Picard.

Acting Member present: Bill Graham for Joe Volpe.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers. From the Committees and Parliamentary Associations Directorate: Paulette Nadeau, Legislative Clerk.

Witnesses: From the Royal Commission on New Reproductive Technologies: Dr. Patricia Baird, Former Chair. From the Advisory Committee on the Interim Moratorium on Reproductive and Genetic Technologies: Dr. Sheilah Martin, Chair. From Health Canada: Phyllis Colvin, Acting Director, Health Policy and Information Directorate, Policy and Consultation Branch; Susan Zimmerman, Counsel.

The Sub-Committee resumed its consideration of Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction (See Minutes of Proceedings dated March 13, 1997, Issue No. 1).

Dr. Patricia Baird made a presentation and answered questions.

At 4:06 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:28 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Dr. Sheilah Martin made a presentation and answered questions.

At 4:39 o'clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:46 o'clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

The Sub-Committee proceeded to the clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), Clause 1 was allowed to stand.

Clauses 2 and 3 carried, on division.

On Clause 4

Carolyn Parrish moved,--That Clause 4 be amended:

a) by replacing line 29, on page 2, with the following:

``(a) manipulate a human cell, zygote or embryo''

b) by replacing, in the English version, line 10, on page 3, with the following:

``or corpse with the intention''

c) by replacing, in the English version, line 17, on page 3, with the following:

``a foetus or corpse to mature outside the''

d) by replacing, in the English version, line 24, on page 3, with the following:

``(h) perform any medical procedure for the''

e) by replacing line 30, on page 3, with the following:

``(i) perform any diagnostic procedure for the''

f) by replacing lines 34 and 35, on page 3, with the following:

``(j) maintain a developing embryo outside the human body; or''

g) by replacing, in the English version, lines 39 and 40, on page 3, with the following:

``(2) No person shall offer to do anything prohibited by subsection (1).''

After debate, the amendment carried, on division.

Clause 4, as amended, carried, on division.

On Clause 5

Carolyn Parrish moved,--That Clause 5 be amended by replacing lines 4 to 17, on page 4, with the following:

``5. (1) No person shall provide consideration to a woman to serve as a surrogate mother or offer, either privately or publicly, to provide consideration for such services.

(2) No person shall provide or offer to provide consideration to a person to arrange the services of a surrogate mother.

(3) No person shall arrange or offer to arrange, for consideration, the services of another person as a surrogate mother.

(4) For the purposes of this section, a surrogate mother is a woman who agrees to carry a child, conceived from an ovum, sperm or zygote provided by a donor, and to surrender the child after birth.''

The amendment carried, on division.

Clause 5, as amended, carried, on division.

On Clause 6

Carolyn Parrish moved,--That Clause 6 be amended by replacing lines 21 to 26, on page 4, with the following:

``bryo or foetus, or any part thereof.

(2) No person shall provide to a donor, and no donor shall accept, any consideration for the donation of ova or sperm, except a donation of sperm made during the period of three years following the coming into force of this section.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of the recovery of expenses incurred by a person other than a donor in the collection, storage or distribution of ova or sperm.''

The amendment carried, on division.

Clause 6, as amended, carried, on division.

Clauses 7 to 10 carried, on division.

On Clause 11

Carolyn Parrish moved,--That Clause 11 be amended by replacing lines 31 and 32, on page 5, with the following:

``to by the Attorney General, within the meaning of the Criminal Code.''

The amendment carried, on division.

Clause 11, as amended, carried, on division.

Clauses 12 to 14 carried, on division.

On Clause 1

Carolyn Parrish moved,--That Clause 1 be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 27, on page 1, with the following:

``humaine et de génie génétique.''

The amendment carried, on division.

Clause 1, as amended, carried, on division.

The Preamble

Carolyn Parrish moved,--That the preamble be amended:

a) by replacing, in the French version, line 3, on page 1, with the following:

``ques de reproduction et de génie''

b) by replacing lines 17 and 18, on page 1, with the following:

``and promote human dignity and equality and the best interests of children in relation to such technologies and transactions;''

The amendment carried, on division.

The Preamble, as amended, carried, on division.

The Title carried, on division.

The Bill, as amended, carried, on division.

ORDERED,--That Bill C-47, An Act respecting human reproductive technologies and commercial transactions relating to human reproduction, be reprinted as amended for the use of the House of Commons at the Report Stage.

ORDERED,--That the Chair report Bill C-47, as amended.

At 5:06 o'clock p.m., the Sub-Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Pierre Rodrigue

Clerk of the Sub-Committee