[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Tuesday, February 11, 1997
.1542 
[English]
The Chairman: For those of you who are joining us this afternoon, welcome tothe proceedings of this committee, which started this morning at 8:30. Between 8:30 a.m. and 1 p.m., we reviewed in a preliminary fashion the amendments submitted by various members, namely Madame Guay, Mr. Forseth, Mr. Knutson, and Mr. Adams.
When we adjourned at 12:55 p.m. we concluded that our next step would be to examine the government amendments, about which, I believe, the parliamentary secretary has a brief statement to make.
Before giving you the floor, to those of you who may not know this publication, may I bring it to your attention. It is called Saving Species. It was produced by Wildlife Habitat Canada dans les deux langues officielles. It is a very thorough compendium of species that are in danger, which is preceded by chapters that review conservation efforts in improving the condition of wildlife.
For those of you who are interested, Wildlife Habitat Canada probably will have copies available. I don't know whether it will be at a certain price or for free, but it's a document that would enrich the library of those who are interested in this critical topic.
So with that jolly announcement aimed at increasing the revenue of libraries here in Ottawa, can I turn perhaps to Madam Kraft Sloan for an intervention, please.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan (York - Simcoe): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
The government amendments aren't ready at this time. The package is not complete. The minister has been ill, so I hope people will understand that. He has been at home. We are working with this problem, which has arisen at the last minute here.
.1545
The package is not available, and the minister has to see the package, so I would move for adjournment.
The Chairman: When do you expect the package to be available?
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: I would ask that we meet tomorrow at this time.
The Chairman: Will the package be available?
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: Yes. I've been given a guarantee.
The Chairman: This means we will forgo the sessions this afternoon and this evening. We will then resume tomorrow and tomorrow evening, and then definitely on Thursday morning and afternoon.
Knowing that some members have pressing commitments in their respective ridings Thursday evening, if we do not complete by Thursday afternoon we will resume on Monday and complete our work sometime next week.
I already see some hands up, so we'll hear the interventions. Madame Guay, followed byMr. Taylor.
[Translation]
Ms Guay (Laurentides): I have two questions, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to know if it would be possible for us, the opposition, to obtain the amendments tomorrow morning so we can examine them before we come to the committee meeting tomorrow afternoon.
[English]
The Chairman: This is a very reasonable question. Madame Guay would like to know whether the amendments could be given to the opposition by early tomorrow morning.
[Translation]
Ms Guay: That way, we could work really efficiently tomorrow.
[English]
The Chairman: Yes, and the other question?
[Translation]
Ms Guay: Tomorrow, when we sit in committee, would it be possible to have all the amendments in order and translated into both languages so that we don't have to work with five or six different documents?
The Chairman: The clerk says yes. Mr. Taylor.
[English]
Mr. Taylor (The Battlefords - Meadow Lake): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Actually, I have a comment. It's not related to the schedule, so perhaps if we finish the talk on the schedule, we could come back to me.
The Chairman: Thank you.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: I'm sorry, I didn't hear Mr. Taylor's intervention.
The Chairman: He is deferring his question until later. Madame Guay is waiting for an answer to her question.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: I have been told by departmental officials that the government amendments will be available by noon, translated.
The Chairman: Mr. Forseth.
Mr. Forseth (New Westminster - Burnaby): They will be available. Are they going to come out of my fax machine? Are they going to be delivered to my office? Do I have to go somewhere to pick them up?
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: We will deliver them to your office.
Mr. Forseth: Okay.
The Chairman: Could we perhaps undertake that they will be faxed to the members before noon tomorrow?
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: Is it appropriate to fax these things? I don't think so. I'm not sure it's appropriate to fax this kind of information before it comes before the committee.
Mr. Forseth: As long as it gets there.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: We will deliver it.
Mr. Forseth: Okay.
[Translation]
Ms Guay: Send it by internal mail.
[English]
The Chairman: Will it be by internal mail? Is that the idea?
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: We'll have a courier send it.
The Chairman: We don't want points of order tomorrow at 3:30 p.m. such that the package has not been delivered and we cannot start the meeting, so we had better be clear that the package will be delivered tomorrow before noon to the respective members. Can we have that commitment from the department?
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: They're nodding in agreement, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Thank you.
Mr. Taylor, followed by Mr. Anawak.
Mr. Taylor: While the departmental people, the minister's staff, and the committee members are all here, I just wanted to express my disappointment about the way in which the report on the state of the environment has been circulated to us.
I work quite a bit with the state of the environment report once it's printed. This year it's available to us only on CD-ROM, but none of us have access to CD-ROM readers. As a member of Parliament, I feel very strongly that I can't do my work properly by having the product provided to me in this way. I simply wanted to express my concern and maybe see how other members of the committee felt about this.
.1550
I think it's unacceptable to have to find a printer for the disk and spend the hours it takes to print this out so that I have access to the information that's available in it.
I don't think this was very well thought out by those responsible for the state of the environment report. I'd like to ask if the committee is prepared to support me, or even us, in trying to find a way to have this report distributed better than it has been.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: I can appreciate your concerns, Mr. Taylor. As environmentalists, I think we would all work as hard as we can to save as many trees as possible and therefore cut down on paper wastage.
Mr. Taylor: Then don't print the goddamn thing ever.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: It is my understanding that the department is working on a solution to provide you with the material you request in a hard copy form.
Mr. Taylor: It's not just me, but others wish it as well. It should have been thought of before it was raised, not after.
The Chairman: May I ask you, Mr. Taylor, what the alternative to the CD-ROM would be if it were to be provided? What would be the better approach?
Mr. Taylor: To a certain extent, as far as information is concerned, Mr. Chairman, I'm still a Luddite. I believe it's still important to print material for people in rural communities without access to the new technology, especially technology to which even we don't have access. This really bothers me.
The Chairman: Fair enough. I imagine a budget cut was at the root of this decision of not making it available in print form. I have a vague recollection of that.
Mr. Taylor: As you know, it's an important report. We support the state of the environment reporting. I think it's nonsense to have that group do all that work and prepare all that information and then have it only accessible to those who have the highest-quality technology. It doesn't make sense.
The Chairman: Fair enough. I appreciate your point. Perhaps we will raise it on a few occasions, including at the time when the estimates are before us.
Mr. Taylor: Okay.
The Chairman: Dr. Rounthwaite, followed by Mr. Forseth.
Professor Ian Rounthwaite (Assistant Dean, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary): I wonder whether I also could get a copy of the government amendments as well.
The Chairman: Yes. Apparently, you are included in that group.
Mr. Forseth.
Mr. Forseth: I was just wondering about the CD-ROM. If CD-ROM exists, then you would certainly think that the disks would also be available. I'm just wondering if that's possible. The Auditor General's report comes out on disks, so disks must be available.
Mrs. Kraft Sloan: Perhaps I could let Mr. Slater from the department answer some of these questions.
The Chairman: We have a motion to adjourn. Technically, at least, it's not debatable. I think there can be an informal discussion or conversation on that as soon as we have resolved the motion to adjourn. Then perhaps we can invite Mr. Slater to the table to explain the question of the report.
Are there any further questions or comments on the motion to adjourn?
All those in favour, please so indicate.
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: The meeting is adjourned.