[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: Page 112 of the binder refers again to the application in the context of pilot projects for a limited duration.
[English]
Ms Smith: Do you mean pilot regulations with respect to the electronic documents?
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: Yes.
[English]
Clauses 143 and 144 agreed to on division
On Clause 145 - Benefit repayment
The Chairman: Are there some government amendments here?
Mr. Regan: These two are in reverse order, so take the second one first.
[Translation]
I move that Clause 145 of the French version of Bill C-12 be amended by striking out line 37 on page 110 and substituting the following:
- ``gulières lui ont été versées à l'égard de plus de''
The Chairman: Do you have an explanation, Mr. Regan?
Mr. Regan: It's just a matter of language. The change will make it clear that the new benefit repayment provisions will not apply to benefits paid for weeks prior to June 30, 1996.
Amendment agreed to on division.
The Chairman: Do you have any further amendments, Mr. Regan?
Mr. Regan: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
[Translation]
Mr. Chairman, my motion is as follows. I move that Clause 145 of the English version of Bill C-12 be amended by striking out line 30 on page 111 and substituting the following:
[English]
````Excluded benefits''
- (6) Regular benefits paid for weeks beginning before''
Mr. Regan: It's the same thing, it's just in English.
The Chairman: Okay, that's explains it.
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 145 as amended agreed to on division
Clauses 146 to 153 inclusive agreed to on division
On Clause 154
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: How much time is left? I must say that Clause 154 is extraordinary. It repeals the National Training Act; in other words, it makes it disappear.
[English]
A voice: You should be supporting that.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: All this is being handed over to Quebec, if I understand correctly.
A voice: We are not responsible for it any more.
Mr. Dubé: Can the same procedure be used to make certain Clauses of the bill disappear?
Mr. Crête: No.
Mr. Dubé: You understand that I would personally be in favour of repealing the National Training Act. However, I also know that it is a dream that will not come true because many matters concerning the field of education have been introduced in the new act. That's unfortunate.
[English]
Mr. McCormick: I expect Quebec would make very wise decisions.
.2205
The Chairman: Mr. Dubé, you're not going to support the National Training Act being repealed?
Mr. Dubé: On division.
The Chairman: Oh yes, of course on division.
Clauses 155 and 156 agreed to on division
Mr. Dubé: Clause 155 was done already, right?
The Chairman: Yes, on division. Now we've done Clause 156.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: The reason is that we prefer the former act to the new.
[English]
Clause 157 agreed to on division
The Chairman: Is there any discussion on Clause 158?
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: Not too quickly, please.
Clause 157 concerns agreements.
[English]
The Chairman: Clause 157 is already done.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: I'm asking you to be understanding, but I won't insist.
[English]
The Chairman: Can we do Clause 158?
Clause 158 agreed to
On Clause 159 - Benefit periods beginning before this section comes into force
The Chairman: Now we're on Clause 159.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: This is new.
[English]
The Chairman: There's a government amendment here. Who's moving the amendment? Mr. Regan?
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: It's a good thing I stopped you, Mr. Chairman, because you might not have stopped at the amendment. You can thank me, Mr. Regan.
Mr. Regan: Very well, sir.
[English]
The Chairman: Yes, at least thank him.
Mr. Regan: I move that Clause 159 of Bill C-12 be amended by striking out line 23 on page 116 and substituting the following:
- ``dealt with under that Act, including any amendments that may be made by Bill C-31,
introduced in the second session of the 35th Parliament and entitled An Act to implement certain
provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 6, 1996.''
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: That's clear, but I have a question. The amendment speaks for itself, but I would like some clarification. It states:
- ``...all matters relating to a claim for benefits during a benefit period beginning before the
Unemployment Insurance Act is repealed...''
Mr. Leduc: On June 30, 1996.
Mr. Crête: Thank you.
[English]
Amendment agreed to on division
The Chairman: Does the Clause carry as amended?
Mr. Regan: No, I have another amendment.
The Chairman: You have another one? Okay.
[Translation]
Mr. Regan: Mr. Chairman, I move that Clause 159 of Bill C-12 be amended by adding after line 22 on page 116 the following:
````Déduction pour rémunération non déclarée''
(1.1) Le paragraphe 19(3) de la présente loi s'applique au prestataire qui a omis de déclarer tout ou partie de la rémunération qu'il a reçue à l'égard d'une période déterminée conformément aux règlements débutant après la date d'entrée en vigueur de ce paragraphe. Toutefois, la Commission peut, à partir de cette date, effectuer des déductions au titre de l'alinéa 19(3)(a)(i) en tenant compte d'omissions relatives à des périodes débutant après le 30 juin 1996.
``Déduction au titre du paragraphe 19(4)''
(1.2) Le paragraphe 19(4) de la présente loi s'applique au prestataire qui commence à suivre un cours ou un programme d'instruction ou de formation après l'abrogation de l'ancienne loi.''
[English]
The Chairman: I think that's very clear.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: The text was very well read, but I nevertheless need explanations.
[English]
The Chairman: We need an explanation, Mr. Regan.
Mr. Regan: Are you looking for a clarification of that one, Mr. Chairman?
The Chairman: Maybe we'll let the officials explain this one.
.2210
Ms Smith: This is to embed in the law the administrative practicality that we would not be in a position to apply the new provisions with respect to undeclared earnings until January 1997.
Nonetheless, if an individual on claim were to have misdeclared their earnings starting in July 1996, when those misdeclarations are discovered at a later date we could apply the new provisions to them.
The Chairman: Okay. Shall the amendment carry? Shall it carry on division?
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: Is it the former act that applies or the new act?
[English]
The Chairman: Ms Smith.
Ms Smith: It means that if an individual misdeclares their earnings in the first week of July, as of the first week of January when we start to detect that fraud we can apply the new rules.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Is that clear?
Mr. Crête: Yes. Thank you.
[English]
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 159 as amended agreed to on division
Clause 160 agreed to on division
On Clause 161 - Premiums
[Translation]
The Chairman: Is this new?
Mr. Dubé: It is new in the case of benefits taking effect in 1997, with the exception of claims for benefits from fishermen. What does it change?
Mr. Leduc: I would like to mention that everything is new from this point on.
Mr. Dubé: You're making my work easier.
Mr. Crête: These are transitional regulations.
Mr. Leduc: Yes.
Mr. Dubé: All the rest?
Mr. Leduc: No. Up to regulation 190. Then it's transitional. There is some consequential.
Mr. Dubé: What is meant by ``transitional''? Does it mean at the end of a certain period...
Mr. Crête: It's to allow for the transition from one act to the next.
Mr. Dubé: Will these provisions no longer apply?
Mr. Leduc: That is correct. Most of these regulations are to enable us to change over from the former program to the new program and to provide for that change-over.
What will remain of the former program? What will be part of the new program? What will overlap? There are all kinds of regulations.
Mr. Dubé: In fact, you are going to be concerned with all that.
Mr. Leduc: Yes.
Mr. Crête: You will therefore have to concern yourself with the transitional regulations and all the problems that that will create.
[English]
The Chairman: Can we move forward now?
Clauses 161 to 166 inclusive agreed to on division
On Clause 167 - Regulations
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: I have a question concerning Clause 167. It states:
``167. The Commission may, with the approval of the Governor in Council, make regulations providing for any other transitional matters, including regulations.''
Does it have to report on these matters to Parliament? These are not matters identified as such in the act. What kind of transitional matters will these be? Will they be used to correct specific cases?
Mr. Leduc: No. You see in paragraph (a) how the transition will occur, for example, in January 1997, in order to switch over from the calculation of insurable weeks to the calculation of insurable hours. People who worked in November and calculated in weeks will calculate in hours when they file their applications in January.
Mr. Crête: Does that mean that the system of transitional matters is not yet defined?
Mr. Leduc: No. This will eventually be done by regulation.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Crête, are you satisfied with the answer?
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: I'm satisfied with the answer, but I think it is very dangerous that that can be done without Parliament's having a say on the manner in which the transition is determined. It won't be simple.
.2215
I believe you are going to say that what was considered as a ``week'' on the basis of a 35-hour week in the former regulations will automatically become ``35 hours'' in the new system. That,I believe, is how the calculation will be made.
[English]
Clauses 167 and 168 agreed to on division
On Clause 169
The Chairman: The government has an amendment.
Mr. Regan: I will read it in English so as to avoid torturing the ears of Mr. Dubé.
The Chairman: Maybe you'll torture mine now.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: Your French is very good. Your French is better than my English.
[English]
Mr. Regan: Merci beaucoup.
I move to amend Clause 169 of the English version of Bill C-12 by striking out line 27 on page 119 and substituting the following:
- ``section 71 of the Employment Insurance Act''
Mr. Regan: This is to correct a typographical error in numbering in the English version only.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: I wonder whether there isn't a mistake. This is the first time I've noticed it. Under the French text that you've just read, you've put ``Section 71'' and then an English expression ``Employment Insurance Act''.
Ms René de Cotret: It's just the English version that is corrected.
Mr. Dubé: Oh, okay.
Mr. Regan: The number in English is not correct; it was 70 and it should be 71.
[English]
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 169 as amended agreed to on division
Clauses 170 and 171 agreed to on division
Mr. Regan: We then have new Clause 172.1, Mr. Chairman.
[Translation]
I move that Bill C-12 be amended by adding after line 30 on page 120 the following:
``172.1 Le sous-alinéa 60n)(iv) de la même loi est abrogé.''
Mr. Crête: I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
Mr. Regan: The reason for this is the repeal of the National Training Act and the Unemployment Insurance Act. It requires the removal of any mention of it in the Income Tax Act.
New Clause 172.1 repeals subparagraph 60(n)(iv) of the Income Tax Act. This subparagraph mentions the Unemployment Insurance Act and makes reference to paragraph 56(1)(m), which in turn makes reference to the National Training Act.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Regan.
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 172 agreed to on division
On Clause 173
The Chairman: There's an amendment here.
[Translation]
Mr. Regan: I move that Clause 173 of Bill C-12 be amended by:
(a) striking out line 31 on page 120 and substituting the following:
``173. (1) Le sous-alinéa a)(iii) de la définition''
(b) by adding after line 33 on page 120 the following:
``1994, ch. 7, ann. VII, par. 3(1)
(2) L'alinéa b) de la définition de «revenu gagné», au paragraphe 63(3) de la même loi est remplacé par ce qui suit:
b) les sommes incluses dans le calcul de son revenu en application des articles 6 ou 7 ou des alinéas 56(1)n) ou o), ou qui seraient ainsi incluses sans l'alinéa 81(1)a);''
.2220
[English]
Now what does this mean? Let's see.
This amendment deletes a reference to the National Training Act in subsection 63(3) of the Income Tax Act. It's similar to the last one, Mr. Chairman.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: I have a question on Clause 173. Why is the following being replaced:
``173. Paragraph (a)(iii) of the definition ``child care expense''
and why is the reference to the question of child care expenses being removed? I don't understand this.
[English]
Mr. Dixon: In the definition of ``child care expense'' in the Income Tax Act, there is a reference that refers to paragraph 56(1)(m), which is a reference to the National Training Act. We're repealing that. We're deleting from the definition of ``child care expense'' any reference to a provision that is related to the National Training Act provision.
A voice: Anything that has to do with the National Training Act is gone.
Mr. Dixon: Similarly, in the definition of ``earned income,'', there's a reference to paragraph 56(1)(m), and we're correcting that; we're deleting that reference.
The Chairman: Does that satisfy you, Mr. Crête?
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: Yes.
[English]
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 173 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 174
The Chairman: We have another amendment here.
Mr. Regan: I move that Clause 174 of Bill C-12 be amended (a) by striking out line 34 on page 120 and substituting the following:
``1994, c. 7, Sch. II, s. 37(1) 174. (1) Subparagraph
64(a)(i) of the Act is''
and (b) by adding, immediately after line 37 on page 120, the following:
``(2) Subparagraph 64(b)(ii) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(ii) an amount included by reason of paragraph 56(1)(n) or (o) in computing a taxpayer's income for the year, or''
It's Roman numeral (ii). You can say ``two''. We heard it last night from the lawyers.
An hon. member: Damn lawyers.
Mr. Regan: The reason for this is that the repeal of the National Training Act requires the removal of any mention of it in the Income Tax Act, so it's similar to the last ones. So the present Clause 174 becomes Sub-Clause 174(1). Sub-Clause 174(2) is added to remove mention of paragraph 56(1)(m) of the Income Tax Act, because this paragraph refers to the dreaded National Training Act.
Mr. Easter: It's a terrible thing.
An hon. member: It has to go.
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 174 as amended agreed to on division
Clause 175 agreed to on division
Mr. Nault: Mr. Chairman, before we go any further, we had a discussion about the ten hours. Can you verify what time you had agreed on with the opposition, based on dinner?
The Chairman: Based on dinners and any other delays, it was 10:40 p.m.
Mr. Nault: Is that what you accept? If not...
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: I believe I understood that the House asked that it not last more than 10 hours. So we absolutely cannot exceed 10 hours of debate.
[English]
The Chairman: That's right, and we won't go over it. But it's ten hours of sitting, right?
Mr. Crête: Yes.
The Chairman: That means the time when we're eating, when we're having dinner, does not count in the ten hours. Right?
An hon. member: That's a very fair ruling.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: But haven't we previously discussed this?
[English]
An hon. member: We had an agreement.
The Chairman: We had an agreement.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: At what time will this discussion be over?
.2225
[English]
The Chairman: ``Ten hours'' can mean two, two, two, two, two, or whatever else adds up to ten. If we were eating for a half hour, we weren't working. I just want to clarify this, because I want to get the exact time here.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: Mr. Chairman, we should not debate this too long because we are going to waste the rest of the time. I distinctly heard that we are going to have 15 minutes to eat. I believe we took more than 15 minutes to eat.
Mr. Crête: We said there were 15 minutes for supper.
Mr. Dubé: The parliamentary secretary suggested 15 minutes, but that was too short.
Mr. Regan: Are you in a hurry?
[English]
An hon. member: [Inaudible - Editor].
Mr. Nault: Yes.
The Chairman: I want to make sure we don't go over the ten hours. That's not going to be a problem.
Mr. McCormick: I could always move that we don't see the clock for two minutes.
The Chairman: We'll agree with this - actually, I'm going to ask you whether you agree or not. If we were to add the time we had for the interruption for dinner, we would go until 10:42. That would represent ten hours' worth of sittings. So, is it agreed that we will go to 10:42?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Anyway, the clerk tells me this is the time and this is the place.
Mr. Proud: Here we go.
Clause 176 agreed to on division
On Clause 177
The Chairman: Is there any discussion on Clause 177?
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: It's in Clause 177 which concerns "average weekly insurable earnings" and hours.I would like some explanation.
[English]
The Chairman: Can we get an explanation on that?
[Translation]
Mr. Leduc: Since ``weekly insurable earnings'' is no longer useful, the Labour Adjustment Benefits Act had to be redefined. We defined it in another way because that follows the Unemployment Insurance Act. We therefore created the Employment Insurance Act.
Mr. Dubé: There is another small problem. It states: ``For the twenty weeks of employment immediately preceding the employee's effective date of lay-off''. That seems to be a fixed period.
Mr. Crête: That's a question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dubé: Is this the same rule?
[English]
Mr. McFee: The twenty insurable weeks preceding the start of the claim are what are used in the current system - if there are twenty weeks.
[Translation]
It's the same thing.
Mr. Dubé: It's because it varies from one region to the next.
Mr. McFee: No, that's not it, we are considering the weekly average of the 20 weeks immediately preceding the claim for benefits under the Labour Adjustment Benefits Act. It's nothing else.
[English]
Mr. Regan: We haven't seen Mr. Scott's amendment yet.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: Did Mr. Scott move an amendment on this?
[English]
Mr. Regan: It will be at the report stage.
The Chairman: It will be introduced in the House, à la Chambre.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: If Mr. Scott's amendment is heard in the House, we should not forget to correct this at the same time.
Mr. Regan: Yes.
[English]
The Chairman: Shall Clause...
Mr. Easter: Just to be clear on that point, there are technical amendments to cover that, and related to Mr. Scott's amendment.
.2230
Clauses 177 to 186 inclusive agreed to on division
On Clause 187 - References to Unemployment Insurance Act
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: We have to give the government a chance.
[English]
The Chairman: Let's give the government a chance.
Mr. Regan: I move that Clause 187 of Bill C-12 be amended by striking out line 14 on page 124 and substituting the following:
- ``and 60(n)(iii) and (o)(ii),''
Mr. Regan: This again is in relation to the repeal of the National Training Act. If you wish,I can go on.
The Chairman: No. It's okay.
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 187 as amended agreed to on division
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: Mr. Chairman, I am a bit concerned because I wonder whether an ordinary citizen can understand these things. I don't understand anything.
Mr. Crête: You can believe that there are some who do understand and that's what you should be concerned about.
[English]
On Clause 188 - Bill C-93
Mr. Regan: I move that Clause 188 of Bill C-12 be amended by striking out lines 33 to 39on page 124 and substituting the following:
- ``An Act to amend the Cultural Property Export and Import Act, the Income Tax Act and
the Tax Court of Canada Act
This will provide for continuing jurisdiction of the tax court, regardless of which act comes into force first, the employment insurance act or the act concerning cultural property.
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 188 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 189 - Bill C-96
Mr. Regan: I move that Clause 189 of Bill C-12 be amended (a) by striking out line 13 on page 125 and substituting the following:
````Bill C-11''
189. If Bill C-11, introduced in the second''
(b) by striking out lines 11 and 12 on page 126 and substituting the following:
- ``available to the Canada Employment Insurance Commission, or to an officer, clerk''
``(x) to the Canada Employment In-''
and (d) by striking out line 31 on page 127 and substituting the following:
``ment Insurance Commission;''
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 189 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 190
The Chairman: We have some government amendments here.
Mr. Regan: Mr. Chairman, the English version in the large package was wrong - there's a small package for the English version - and the French version in the large package is correct.
The French version in the more recent package that was handed out is correct.
The Chairman: Was that the big package or the little one?
Mr. Regan: I'll read it. I think that will work.
.2235
[Translation]
I move that Clause 190 of Bill C-12 be amended:
(a) by striking out line 41 on page 127 and substituting the following:
- ``les alinéas 90(1)d), h) et i), l'article 95 et les paragraphes 96(4) et (5) en-''
``h) l'alinéa 30(1)a) et les paragraphes 30(6) et (7);''
(c) by adding after line 12 on page 128 the following:
``j.1) le paragraphe 38(3);''
(d) by adding after line 15 on page 128 the following:
````Entrée en vigueur le 1er janvier 1997''
(3.1) Les paragraphes 7.1(1) à (3) entrent à vigueur le 5 janvier 1997. Toutefois, la Commission peut, à compter de cette date, appliquer ces paragraphes en tenant compte d'avis de violations donnés conformément au paragraphe 7.1(4) depuis le 30 juin 1996.
``Entrée en vigueur le 5 janvier 1997''
(3.2) Le paragraphe 19(3) entre en vigueur le 5 janvier 1997. Toutefois, la Commission peut, à partir de cette date, effectuer des déductions au titre de l'alinéa 19(3)a)i) en tenant compte d'omissions relatives à des périodes débutant à compter du 30 juin 1996.''
(e) by adding after line 28 on page 128 the following:
````Entrée en vigueur le 1er janvier 1998''
(5) Les articles 172 à 175 entrent en vigueur le 1er janvier 1998.''
That's all.
Mr. Crête: I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
The Chairman: Very briefly. I don't want to go over the time allotted by the House order.I have approximately forty seconds, so I'm going to run out the clock. We'll have to suspend the hearings for five to ten minutes to clean up the list a bit so when we come back we can deal with this in a quick and efficient manner.
Now I have only fifteen seconds left to run out the clock.
Mr. Nault: Can we carry this amendment on division?
The Chairman: No, because he has a question.
The time is up. I'll suspend this Clause. Can you just give us five to ten minutes to clean up the amendments and the list so we can do it right when we start?
.2239
.2254
The Chairman: I'll call the meeting to order. We're not going to go as fast as we did the last time. We'll go a little bit slower.
.2255
First we're going to deal with Clause 2.
Clause 2 agreed to on division
The Chairman: Now we will move to Clause 3.
On Clause 3 - Commission to assess adjustment
The Chairman: On Clause 3, there's a subamendment. Shall the subamendment carry?
Subamendment negatived
The Chairman: Now we'll move to the amendment. Shall the amendment carry?
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 3 as amended agreed to on division
The Chairman: Now we'll move to Clause 7.1. Shall Clause 7.1 carry?
Clause 7.1 carried on division
On Clause 25 - Status of claimants
The Chairman: Mr. Crête has a subamendment here. Shall that subamendment carry?
Subamendment negatived
The Chairman: Shall the amendment carry?
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 25 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 27 - Disqualification - general
The Chairman: Shall the subamendment carry?
Subamendment negatived
The Chairman: Shall the amendment carry?
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 27 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 29 - Interpretation
The Chairman: Shall the subamendment carry?
Subamendment negatived
The Chairman: Shall the amendment carry?
Amendment agreed to
Clause 29 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 39 - Penalty for employers, etc.
The Chairman: There's a subamendment here from Mr. Crête.
.2300
Subamendment negatived.
Amendment agreed to on division
Clause 39 as amended agreed on division
On Clause 58-Definition of insured participant
The Chairman: Now, Clause 58. There's a subamendment and an amendment.
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: It should read "during the last 48 months" instead of "during the last 36 months". You should agree on this.
[English]
The Chairman: There is a government amendment to Clause 58.
Mr. Easter: There is no amendment for the government. Oh, yes there is; you're right, there is an amendment.
Mr. Proud: Is it a government amendment?
Mr. Easter: It's about ``insured participant''.
Mr. Nault: Is there a subamendment?
Mr. Easter: There's a government amendment in the new package.
The Chairman: There is a government amendment.
Amendment agreed to on division
The Chairman: Now there's an amendment by Mr. Crête.
Amendment negatived
Clause 58 as amended agreed to on division
On Clause 60 - National employment service
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: Everyone agrees. Do we need to vote?
[English]
Mr. McCormick: Don't put my name on the record.
The Chairman: We'll go with the government...
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
The Chairman: We'll go first with the government amendment.
Amendment agreed to
The Chairman: Now we go to Mr. Dubé's amendment.
Mr. Nault: We're on Clause 60, are we not?
The Chairman: Yes, we are.
Amendment agreed to
The Chairman: I can't believe the spirit of cooperation in this committee.
Clause 60 as amended agreed to
Mr. Proud: It's unanimous.
The Chairman: Mr. Crête, don't take it personally...it's got nothing...
[Translation]
Mr. Crête: I am part of a team.
[English]
On Clause 90 - Request for ruling
The Chairman: There is an amendment by Mr. Crête.
Amendment negatived
Clause 90 agreed to on division
On Clause 111-Boards to be established
.2305
The Chairman: Now we're at Clause 111. Mr. Crête had an amendment.
The Clerk: That was ``shall be appointed by Governor in Council from lists established by...''
Amendment negatived
Clause 111 as amended agreed to
On Clause 122 - Determination of questions
The Chairman: I believe Mr. Crête had an amendment.
Amendment negatived
Clause 122 agreed to on division
On Clause 190 - Coming into force
Mr. Nault: My understanding is the amendment to Clause 190 was not voted on and therefore it should not carry as amended. We did not get that far.
The Chairman: That's right. That's Mr. Regan's thing.
Mr. Nault: So it should be carried without amendment.
The Chairman: Okay, thanks for that clarification.
Just for clarification, it was moved, so we can adopt it. So it will be as it was before us, as amended. Is that clear? It's adopted.
Clause 190 as amended agreed to
The Chairman: Shall the schedule to Clause 6 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the schedule to Clause 7 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the schedule to Clause 10 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the title carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the bill as amended carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: On division.
The Chairman: Shall the committee order a reprint for use at report stage?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall I report the bill as amended to the House?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: No.
The Chairman: At this point I can't just let you guys go now. This was my first experience as chair of a committee, as you've probably gathered by now. It really is a sort of baptism by fire. During my days as parliamentary secretary with Minister Axworthy... For two and a half years we've been working on social security review here in Canada. We visited every single province and territory, met with literally thousands of people. Tonight, for me, and I know for many of you who are here, represents a very important chapter in this sort of journey in trying to improve the social security of Canadians.
.2310
Throughout the debate I guess everyone has their say and brings a different perspective to the issue. Nevertheless, one thing I've noticed about the members of this committee is that they passionately believe in certain principles and values. Really, that's what political life is all about.
I would like to express to you my thanks for making my job as easy as it was and for your dedication.
I would also like to thank the many Human Resources Development officials whom I've come to know over the years, who have worked extremely hard on this particular issue and many others. As you know, Human Resources Development is perhaps the largest serving agency of government, if you want to call it that, and it has an impact on millions of Canadians. So, on the record, I would like to thank Norine Smith, Ian Green, Karen Jackson, Diane Carroll, Gordon McFee, Luc Leduc, Michael Dixon, Guy Grenon, Ken Kerr, Michèle René de Cotret, and many others who I am sure have supported your efforts throughout this bill and indeed throughout the entire social security exercise.
I would like to thank the members of all parties. I would also like to thank the procedural clerks - Luc Fortin, Pierre Rodrigue, Diane Diotte, and Wayne Cole; and the legislative clerks - Robert Normand, Paulette Nadeau, and Charles Bellemare; and the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament - Mary Hurley and Sandra Harder - for all their work.
Sometimes when we leave this place and go back to our offices and homes a lot of people are working to make sure that life for members of Parliament in committee runs as smoothly as possible. So I want to thank everyone here tonight and thank all the individuals who contributed to the process, including the literally hundreds of thousands of Canadians who participated.
Mr. Dubé wants to say a few words.
[Translation]
Mr. Dubé: I did not necessarily want to have the last word, but these will be my last words in the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development because I have been assigned to the Standing Committee on Health. I have been a member of this committee from the start and I would like to reiterate the thanks that Mr. Bevilacqua gave to the officials and committee members.
I wish to remind you that we would have liked to spend more time on Clause-by-Clause consideration of the bill. Don't woory, I don't want to restart the debate. This evening, we softened our stance if I may use the expression, in order to complete the work.
We realize that the majority is the majority. We took the trouble to make technical amendments in order to avoid confusion and make matters clearer. If we succeeded, so much the better.
We still do not agree on the essential aspects of the bill, but we will not restart the debate.
I would like to tell you that I take away with me happy memories of each of the old members of the committee. I remember the Christmas carols that Ms. Augustine and I sang together on the airplane, she in English and I in French. I remember these happy moments. I am sorry that we cut the process short at the very end. It could have been better.
I would observe - and this is one of the weaknesses of our present system - that we are prisoners of certain party lines. The system is not perfect; it should be improved.
We saw it during the votes; we didn't vote in favour of my amendment. I think we should think about it, and possibly reflect on it.
I won't continue on that point, and I don't want to start a debate and create more animosity.
It will be a pleasure for me to cross paths with you in the halls, even if we are no longer members of the same committee. I wish you all the best. Thank you.
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[English]
The Chairman: I'd also like to thank Phil, who's an intern with my office, for what I think has been quite a learning experience for him, and Marg Penniston from the minister's office, who has worked very hard on this bill. I also want to thank the staff that is always here working hard, making sure that everybody is taken care of, as well as the interpreters.
Did I miss anyone? When you start mentioning names, that's the risk you run. I'd like to thank everybody who's been involved in this particular process. Thanks again, and have an early night.