[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Thursday, January 25, 1996
.1421 
[Translation]
The Chairman: Good afternoon.
[English]
Welcome to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development. On behalf of the committee I'd like to welcome our new Minister of Human Resources Development, Mr. Doug Young, who -
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
The Chairman: - has just been named to the position this morning. Mr. Young has asked for the opportunity to meet with the committee for a short session just to say a few words.
I turn the floor over to you, Mr. Minister.
[Translation]
The Honourable Douglas Young (Minister of Human Resources Development): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First of all, I would like to thank the chairman and all the committee members for giving me this opportunity to begin the dialogue immediately after my appointment as Minister of Human Resources Development. It think that the work that all parliamentary committees do is very important, and I particularly appreciate the dedication of members of Parliament such as yourselves who sit during times when many people in the country think that we are all off on vacation. Your work is extremely important, particularly when it comes to the issues that affect my department.
I am looking forward to receiving the committee's report. I do know that you have already done a great deal of work, and that in the weeks to come you will have the opportunity to hear viewpoints expressed by those concerned with employment insurance reform in particular.
[English]
Mr. Chairman, as I indicated to you in the discussions leading to this opportunity to meet with you, it's not my intention today to get into the details of the legislation you are considering. Since you were here on Parliament Hill, however, I did want to avail myself of the opportunity to come by and say hello.
Coping with the problems facing those people who are the most vulnerable in our society is going to be an enormous challenge for you and for all our colleagues in the House of Commons and in the other place.
I am a parliamentarian who believes strongly that what distinguishes Canada from many of our neighbours around the world is our social programs. I know that some have expressed concern that my approach in my previous incarnation as Minister of Transport in trying to make that operation more efficient might lead them to believe that draconian measures would be taken at Human Resources Development.
I'm pleased to say, Mr. Chairman, that I think it's on the record on a number of occasions that I believe that in the area of operational departments - where you're talking about trains, planes, ships, cars - they are important only inasmuch as those systems support an economy that can ensure the capacity to pay for social programs that take care of those who need help in our society.
So I have no difficulty in making the transition from a department where we took very dramatic steps to improve efficiency and productivity and provide opportunities for change and improvement, and then coming to this department where we have to focus on the humanitarian side of government, on the compassionate and caring aspects of what national government should be about.
.1425
Mr. Chairman, I look forward to hearing from members of this committee. I've listened carefully to many of my own constituents' concerns with respect to the legislation before you. I know you've had the opportunity to hear from the deputy minister and members of the department as well. I want to assure you that as we look at some of the specific areas that have caused a lot of anxiety, I think we all have an important role to play in finding ways to improve a bill that has a lot to recommend it.
I don't want to review in detail what you are dealing with, but I would like to point out two areas. One, of course, is the whole notion of how you calculate income based on continuous weeks. Obviously there has to be some way of dealing with the problem. It's not just a question of changing the formula. I'm a person who believes that the way you correct difficulties with employment insurance is by making sure there's employment available.
We're dealing with a side of the equation that is the support system when all else fails, but I look forward to trying to achieve an accommodation on the issue of the continuous-weeks formula.
There's also the intensity rule. I've said many times that it's unfortunate that we talk about seasonal workers. Most of the people - and I say ``most'' because there are exceptions to this - I'm familiar with, not just in Atlantic Canada, but across the country, who are struck by the need to return to unemployment insurance on a regular basis are people who have very little control over that situation. I describe them as being full-time workers in seasonal jobs.
The industries are seasonal, the jobs are seasonal. A fisherman is not a part-time fisherman. A woods worker is not a part-time woods worker in the area the member for Kenora - Rainy River lives in. A person working in the tourism industry in Prince Edward Island is not a part-time worker. The industry in which the woman or man works is seasonal. It's unfortunate, but our friends from Japan don't often visit Anne of Green Gables in Prince Edward Island in February.
So I hope that Canadians and members of this committee will understand that we have to be careful how we deal with these issues where people are told they can't cut wood because there is a total allowable cut in provinces. It's impossible to work full time, in terms of 52 weeks, at the job because oftentimes governments won't let you do that.
There's a mighty challenge here and I hope that together, being careful, listening to one another.... The department certainly will continue to cooperate. I will try to be as accommodating as possible, but I don't want anyone to misunderstand. The obligations the government has undertaken in last year's budget with respect to the whole area of employment insurance will be respected. However we rearrange things, the bottom line cannot change.
As strongly as I feel about many social programs, I don't want to wind up like some politicians in this country. All they can do is talk about social programs because they have no notion of how to pay for them. There is no point in trying to reassure men and women and youth across the country that you're going to be able to do things just because you have an idea or a plan, unless you have the financial capability to be able to support it.
We're going to try to work towards that end, Mr. Chairman. I would simply make the offer that if at some future date, after I've familiarized myself with more of the legislation, you would like to have me come back, I'd be happy to do that.
I would hope that I would not be asked to respond to specific questions today. But let me assure you that at Human Resources, in addition to the emphasis that obviously has to be put on the legislation you're considering at this time, we will be grappling with extremely complex questions dealing with support for senior citizens through the Canada Pension Plan and OAS.
.1430
We will have to negotiate arrangements with the provinces - I hope on the basis of partnership - to try to provide support for people who need help. I intend to do that transparently and openly. I'm sure that all my colleagues in the provinces and territories are faced with the same kinds of financial constraints as we are.
One area I hope we will be able to address in a very meaningful way is the whole problem of the lack of opportunity for our youth. As governments at all levels, as citizens, the private sector, organizations of all kinds, we have to look at creative ways to try to respond to the frustration of young people, from people who had difficulty getting through high school, to graduates from university and to people who have technical training.
One of the very serious challenges we're facing as Canadians is how to provide appropriate opportunities for our young people. It's one area on which I as a minister intend to focus some of my energy. There are obviously a wide array of issues we'll have to deal with.
Over the next year or two I hope I can have some impact on what I think is an extremely important problem. That's where I hope someday we'll be able to look back and say that all of us together - from all political parties, from all levels of government and from the private sector - were able at least to begin to deal in a significant way with what is an untenable and unacceptable situation for the young people of Canada.
[Translation]
Once again, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to visit you for the first time. I wish you great success and I assure you that I will cooperate with you fully, and I would particularly like to say that I appreciate the work that you have already done, and the work you will continue to do in this area, which is very important for all Canadians. Thank you.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Young. On behalf of the committee members, I would like to thank you for offering to work with us and to return to answer our questions about the bill we are studying as well as other topics, of course.
[English]
I want to say that over the past two years this committee has been very much engaged in the whole process of social security reform and all the related subjects, as you know. We've travelled the country, we've developed a certain bit of knowledge from our own perspective on these questions, and we are taking our job of studying the employment insurance legislation very seriously. We hope to be able to provide you with worthwhile suggestions on how that legislation can be improved, including those two aspects pointed out in your remarks, but probably in other areas as well.
As a courtesy to the members of the committee representing the three different parties, I will allow for a very short welcoming remark from all three parties, beginning with the official opposition. As we mentioned earlier, we're not going to entertain questions, just a short reply from the three parties.
[Translation]
I now give the floor to Mr. Dubé from the Official Opposition.
Mr. Dubé (Lévis): Mr. Young, congratulations on your appointment to an extremely important portfolio. As you know, the Department of Human Resources Development is responsible for a large share of the federal government's expenditures, and for this reason, it is a very important department.
.1435
Given the region that you come from, you certainly have to be concerned about the issue of seasonal work. You own constituents have already made you very aware of this problem, which is of particular concern to them. As a member of the committee, I think your appointment is a good thing for the future of the programs because you come from a riding that you cannot forget.
I appreciate how quickly you took the opportunity to come and meet with us. I think that's very positive. As my party's critic for training and youth, I certainly noted that you had indicated that this was your priority as soon as you had an opportunity to do so. I find that very interesting.
I have been a member of this committee for two years, and several of my colleagues and I toured Canada last year, and we had the opportunity to meet with people who were having problems. Members of this committee, from both sides of the House, both veterans and newcomers, wish to improve legislation, if possible, as well as social programs. Our parties may be political adversaries, but rest assured that the Bloc Québécois, at least, is concerned about improving people's lot, not making it worse. Consequently, we would be very pleased to have you back before the committee soon because there is a deadline for the implementation of the employment insurance reform, unless you were to postpone this deadline, which would not sadden us. I think it can wait a bit, because this reform is really getting people worked up in every part of the country. In any event, once you feel ready to return and appear before the committee, we would be pleased to have you with us. Sometimes we can do more detailed work in committee. The departmental officials are at our disposal. Even though the media focus on question period in the House, I've learned from my experience over the past two years that question period is not where you learn the most.
So, on behalf of all those who are concerned, in one way or another, about social programs and the Department of Human Resources Development, I would like to wish you good luck.
[English]
The Chairman: Mrs. Brown.
Mrs. Brown (Calgary Southeast): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Young: If I may, Mr. Chairman, I want to apologize to my honourable friend. We arranged this rather quickly because I wanted to come and just say hello to the committee.
She hasn't missed very much - and certainly nothing contentious - but I do want to say that I've seen her in the House and I look forward to her penetrating questions, which no doubt will begin very soon, although today is not one of those occasions.
Mrs. Brown: Thank you, Mr. Minister. That pretty much reflects the comments I made this morning to the press when I was asked about your entry now into this new portfolio.
I very much look forward to the debate in the House, but I also very much look forward to seeing you as the great implementer you've become. You're noted for bringing about change in the work and efforts you endeavour to undertake in the House of Commons, and I very much look forward to that.
I want to let you know that this portfolio is also somewhat new to me. I didn't have the experience of travelling with this committee last year as it went about the countryside. From time to time I have felt that it was unfortunate that I was not part of that debate, because I did not see that richness of the Canadian fabric, at least certainly from that context, with my colleagues. I always think that if you don't have some of those shared experiences, sometimes it makes it a little more difficult to understand a particular point from which they are coming, or certainly the point they're trying to make.
.1440
I have to say that I do believe that even though we come from different ideologies, it doesn't mean we don't have the same level of compassion and sympathy for Canadians across the country.
I want everybody here to understand that certainly the context and arguments I may bring to the debate are really to enhance the level and richness of the debate. I very much look forward to that part of our experience here together.
You mentioned the lack of opportunity for youth. I have two young daughters. I'm sure all of us in this room have some experience, either in our own personal lives with our children, or children within our extended family, or a friend, and beyond that.
I would absolutely love to see an effort made to enhance and improve the opportunities for young people in Canada. We leave them a rather unfortunate legacy if indeed we do not charge ourselves to undertake that responsibility in this committee and in the work we do as parliamentarians.
I can only say how excited I am to welcome you into your new portfolio. I was really quite pleased this morning when the announcement was made. I know there were some journalists on the Hill who had lots of rumours, and lots of opinions were flying yesterday. But seeing you confirmed today in this post, I can say it is going to be a pleasure to work with you. I look forward to the days and months that lie ahead of us.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mrs. Brown.
I'm going to invite our vice-chair, Maria Minna, to say a few words on behalf of the Liberal members of the committee.
Ms Minna (Beaches - Woodbine): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, I want to welcome you, Minister, to our group, and congratulate you on your new duties. Speaking for myself and some of my colleagues, and looking at government's overall infrastructure and efficiencies to then be able to support an economy that in fact can then assist those who need us, I'm very happy to hear the philosophy with which you come to these duties. I find that a very important philosophy. I believe in it myself, and I know many of my colleagues do. It's nice for us to hear it enunciated once in a while, and I'm glad to hear that.
Mr. Nault (Kenora - Rainy River): A very Liberal idea.
Ms Minna: A very Liberal idea, absolutely.
I also welcome your deep understanding of seasonal work, and your point that we're not talking about part-time workers but full-time workers who work in a seasonal environment or part-time environment almost, if you like. I find that a very refreshing way of looking at things. I think it's very important that we see these people that way.
The department we are dealing with, the responsibility you have, has to address very many important issues that affect every citizen in this country. Some of these you have mentioned: youth, seniors, child care - which is another hot topic and a favoured one of mine, in addition to a number of others - child poverty, and I could go on. It is probably the department that, with maybe the exception of Health, touches people in the closest way, and every Canadian most directly, most closely and very personally.
I am very much looking forward to working with you. It's a major responsibility. I don't envy you, but I welcome you and I'm happy that you have it.
I'm looking forward to working with you, and I know my colleagues would be very happy to have you come back, discuss with you the legislation that is before us, and go into more detail on the aspects you mentioned, and maybe others we may wish to bring up as well.
So I congratulate you again. It's a great challenge, and I look forward to meeting it with you.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
Mr. Young: Thank you again very much, Mr. Chairman.
I know that you all know Monsieur Noreau. We'll all be trying to do the best we can to be as compassionate and responsible as possible in pursuing our common objectives of trying to make Canada a continuing good place to live in.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.
The meeting is adjourned.