[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Thursday, June 13, 1996
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[English]
The Chairman: Good morning, everybody. I would like to extend our greetings and our welcome to our witnesses from Pauktuutit Inuit Women's Association: Martha Flaherty, president; Martha Greig, vice-president; and Mary Nashook, secretary-treasurer.
Before I turn the floor over to you, I'd like to thank you for being here. This committee decided to undertake a process of education. We are members of Parliament. We are proud politicians. We come from the vast areas of this country. We are assigned to committees.
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Each and every member of this committee, on all sides, all parties, takes to heart the work we do here. We're not dealing with mortar and bricks here, we're dealing with people's lives, and everyone takes that very seriously.
We decided to invite people affected by decisions made by Parliament to come and share with us concerns and needs so that when we have our deliberations we have that awareness. Many have indicated that they have been here before. Every time we change the committee you're invited, and it goes on the shelf.
Well, this committee works from a binder. You will be a chapter in our binder. This binder will not gather dust. It's something we carry around. So I hope the next time you're invited it's to evaluate what has been done as a result of your presentation. The time you spend with us today is not wasted time. We take this presentation very seriously.
We have an hour. We invite you to make a presentation in whatever time you need, but if you take up all the time, there will be no time for questions. Perhaps you can allow a balance. We also try to give each member equal time.
The floor is yours.
Ms Martha Flaherty (President, Pauktuutit (Inuit Women's Association of Canada)): [Witness speaks in her native language].
Thank you for asking us to meet with you this morning to discuss our priorities and concerns. Not all of you may be familiar with Pauktuutit, the Inuit Women's Association of Canada, and our mandate. We would like to begin by explaining a little bit about our organization.
Pauktuutit was incorporated in 1984 to act as an official representative of all Inuit women in Canada. Our mandate is to foster greater awareness of the needs of Inuit women, to encourage their participation in the community, and regional and national concerns in relation to social, cultural and economic development.
Our aims and objectives are contained in our annual report, which we have provided for all members this morning. We have been very active in many areas of concern to Inuit women over the last 12 years, including family violence, health, economic development and housing, and in the political arena, to name just a few.
We receive our direction each year from delegates to our annual general meeting, where Inuit women from all regions are represented. I'm talking about northern Quebec, Labrador and the Northwest Territories. Our most recent AGM was held in March 1996 in Cambridge Bay, Northwest Territories.
By the way, I forgot to introduce one of our board members, Clara O'Gorman. She is also one of the commissioners for our Nunavut Implementation Commission.
We have brought resolutions passed by delegates, for your information.
Let's look at Nunavut, a new territory to be created pursuant to Nunavut Final Agreement. We believe Nunavut must work toward healthy individuals, families and communities. Issues such as family violence, addictions, suicide, unemployment and poverty are in our view all self-government issues. Pauktuutit is the only national organization focusing on restoring physical and mental health and well-being as part of the process leading to self-government.
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Unlike organizations such as Nunavut Tunngavik, Makivik Corporation and Inuvialuit Regional Council, we do not have the opportunity to generate revenue or financial benefit from land claim settlements. While many Inuit women are beneficiaries of these land claim agreements, the organizations that represent Inuit women have not equally benefited from the resources obtained through these land claims. By the way, half the population in Nunavut, if not more, is women. We voted for land claims too.
We have been meeting with federal politicians and public servants to inform them of our mandate and constituency. I want to repeat that message here today. When politicians and policy makers wish to consult with Inuit, you must also consult with Pauktuutit in order to be fully informed about our concerns and priorities. I hope I don't have to repeat that again.
I also want to remind you that we must have adequate resources to continue to provide such services to government. We do not have time today to discuss in detail the many areas of our work. We have chosen to focus on two of our major issues, which are equal representation for Inuit women in the government of Nunavut and issues relating to the administration of justice for Inuit women and children.
Achieving equality for Inuit women has been central to all of our work. A particular concern to us is equal representation of Inuit women in the new legislative body of Nunavut. With Nunavut we have a unique opportunity to create a form of government that will best serve its residents and that will reflect the needs and aspirations of the people. We believe we must strive for excellence and not compromise on a modified southern model that does not meet the needs of all its citizens.
The Nunavut Implementation Commission has proposed a two-member constituency model for the Nunavut legislature that would ensure that an equal number of male and female representatives are elected to represent all ridings in Nunavut. It is estimated that a minimum of 15 to 20 members are required for the legislature to operate effectively. Rather than redraw electoral boundaries to create an adequate number of ridings, with the Nunavut Implementation Commission's proposed model each voter would cast two ballots, one for a male representative and one for a female representative.
Two-member constituencies are not new to Canada. At the provincial level 9 of the 10 provinces have used two-member or multi-member constituencies in the last 50 years. A discussion paper prepared by the Nunavut Implementation Commission entitled ``Two-Member Constituency and Gender Equality: A Made-in-Nunavut Solution for an Effective and Representative Legislature'', states that P.E.I.'s legislative assembly has historically been structured on the basis of 16 two-member constituencies for a total of 32 MLAs. Like many systems using two-member and multi-member constituencies, P.E.I.'s system has as its historical roots the notion of representation for different groups in society as well as for individuals.
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The discussion paper further states that multi-member constituencies are the norm in most western European countries today, meeting both the demand for equality of representation and the other principle of community representation.
The paper concludes by stating that the people of Nunavut have a rare and wonderful opportunity to create a legislature and government that are appropriate, innovative and progressive. The Nunavut legislative assembly could be a model for democratic peoples everywhere.
While men and women may share many of the same goals, as we said earlier our priorities can be quite different. It is essential in order for Inuit to be self-determining to have healthy individuals, families and communities. By having equal numbers of women and men in the legislature, issues of concern to women will be given the same priority as other government issues, which can only benefit everyone in Nunavut.
By working together we can find solutions now. Men should be involved with us because social issues are everyone's issues. We must find solutions for today, especially for our youth, who are our future leaders.
Significant barriers have prevented the full and equal participation of women at the political level. It is still a commonly held belief that women are primarily or even exclusively responsible for caring for our homes and families. For many reasons the political system and process are designed by men and for men, and can be very alienating to women. The lack of childcare is also a major barrier to women's participation at the political level, particularly if the seat of government is in a distant community. Women also do not have access to the same resources to undertake political campaigns.
Inuit women have the right to expect that the institution that will have such a direct impact on our lives should be designed with our input to meet all of our needs. I do not believe that as women we should have to try to adapt to an institution that was not designed with our input, has not listened to our concerns, and has not supported or encouraged our participation.
In the current legislative assembly of the Northwest Territories, only two of 24 MLAs are women. I wonder what's happening to us? Of the 12 ridings that represent Inuit communities, only one member is a woman. This is not an acceptable level of participation.
We have documented evidence that Inuit women are completing their education at a higher rate than Inuit men. We are very active in the fields of health and education. What we are asking for is legislated equal representation so that as Inuit we can address all issues of importance to us and our children. This is an opportunity for Canada to become a leader in women's equality on the international stage. A strong and healthy Nunavut will have a great deal to contribute to Canada.
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In these times, when it seems that some people would like to see an end to Canada, Inuit have clearly stated they believe in Canada and will find solutions together. In the words of John Amagoalik, the chief commissioner of the Nunavut Implementation Commission:
- At a time when others are attempting to dismantle Canada, the people of Nunavut are helping to
rebuild and strengthen it. This we can best do through a shared sense of purpose and through
cooperation, support and mutual respect.
Ms Martha Greig (Vice-President, Pauktuutit (Inuit Women's Association of Canada)): And I beg to be kept in Canada.
Ms Flaherty: We are concerned by the lack of support for equal representation in Nunavut from the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.
The entire Pauktuutit board of directors has met with Minister Irwin on several occasions to stress the need to share equal representation for Inuit women in Nunavut, but he is still unconvinced of the merits of this proposal.
I can tell you that the members of Pauktuutit, who are half of all Inuit in Canada, fully endorse equal representation for Nunavut. I urge you to listen to us and help us ensure that the federal government validates and supports the way we wish to govern ourselves in Nunavut.
We have brought copies for you of the discussion paper on the two-member constituents model prepared by the Nunavut Implementation Commission. I won't go into further detail about the proposal at this time. I believe it is in front of you.
Issues relating to the justice system continue to be of great importance to us. We have recently completed a three-year project funded by the Aboriginal Justice Directorate of the Department of Justice; it ended on March 31, 1996. This project has focused on many issues in the different regions.
Highlights of this work include community-based justice alternatives and a study on unreported crime in communities in Labrador that are without permanent policing. We will soon be presenting the findings of our study in Labrador to the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Although the funding for this project has ended, we continue to receive a significant number of calls from Inuit women relating to a number of justice issues. I'm talking about getting phone calls during the day and at night from all over.
These issues require continued attention and advocacy, but we have been advised that there is no funding available to continue this important work. There is an ongoing need to ensure that the voices of Inuit women are heard on proposed reforms such as gun control amendments, alternatives to the existing justice system, and the treatment of young offenders.
We must also be able to advocate on behalf of Inuit women as with the Labrador study. We are deeply concerned that without continued representation by Pauktuutit, the needs of Inuit will not be considered or reflected in proposed legislation.
We urge you to take our views forward to your colleagues in the House.
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While we have been preparing to meet with you today, we have been participating in a national justice consultation with women. We will tell you the recommendations from the consultations that will be presented today to members of the cabinet. They are:
1. That the aboriginal women and justice consultations continue to be funded and held annually on the same basis as the national consultation on violence against women, with the Aboriginal Justice Directorate of the Department of Justice providing the funding and administrative assistance in the same manner as the Department of Justice has provided this consultation;
2. That the aboriginal justice directorate continue the core funding to the national aboriginal organizations that was provided for the past three years to allow the Native Women's Association of Canada, as well as organizations of Métis women, to continue to pursue the justice equality work undertaken in the past three years and that multi-year funding be provided effective July 1, 1996, for as long as the aboriginal justice initiative continues; and
3. That the criteria for funding community-based initiatives in Inuit communities funded by the aboriginal justice directorate and other sectors of the Department of Justice not preclude Pauktuutit, the national organization, from accessing these funds.
In the case of Inuit women, it is through the Pauktuutit justice project that community women have been able to undertake research, review the legal reforms being proposed and imposed upon them, and advocate that their voices be heard.
Inuit women continue to use Pauktuutit to voice their concerns in a way that makes them less vulnerable than they would have been had they risked speaking out in their own communities. That's why we have so many calls here in Ottawa. For women, Pauktuutit is seen as the organization that can represent women's interests without their feeling threatened.
If you define funding criteria to allow only community-based or originally based bodies to access these funds, the result is that women will be further discriminated against and unable to speak out. Among Inuit women, Pauktuutit must continue to be their community voice.
We will conclude our comments by briefly addressing some of our priorities that have been identified by our constituents.
We are all too aware of the housing crisis in our communities. In fact, this standing committee released a few years ago a report, which contained a number of detailed recommendations, on housing in our aboriginal communities in Canada. We are in the same situation today. It is deteriorating because of further cuts to funding for social housing in our communities. We recently submitted a report to Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation detailing specific impacts of the housing crisis on Inuit women and children living in violent situations.
There can be literally nowhere for women to go to escape a violent partner. There are also very few shelters to provide safety or resources to assist victims of family violence. Shelters, however, are but a band-aid solution to the underlying causes of violence against women and children.
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Our members have again directed us to continue working on these issues. The issues of violence and housing have a direct impact on Inuit women and children, sometimes with fatal consequences.
Pauktuutit has the mandate to address the health concerns of all Inuit. In recent years we have addressed such issues as traditional midwifery and the need for women to be able to deliver their babies in their own communities, the growing threat of HIV and AIDS, and the highest rates of suicide in the country.
We hope, in partnership with Health Canada, to deliver a project that will work with youth in the communities to equip them with the knowledge and skills to intervene with their peers who are at risk of committing suicide. In addition, we have an ongoing substance abuse project, through which we also work with people on related issues of fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effect. We are in the process of completing the first Inuit tobacco cessation project with the focus on prevention.
Sustainable community development that includes equal opportunities for women is one of the foundations of both achieving equality and regaining control of our future. We will soon be undertaking pilot projects in two Inuit communities to assist Inuit women who are involved in the production of clothing to take advantage of opportunities in this area. Not only must we ensure that mineral and natural resource development in our homeland not negatively impact on our lives, but we must also ensure that it makes a positive contribution to our society.
We will conclude our presentation at this time and will be happy to answer your questions. Thank you.
The Chairman: Thank you very much for a well-prepared, very detailed, informative presentation. We appreciate that.
We have five minutes per member. Who wants to go first? Mr. Bachand.
Mr. Bachand (Saint-Jean): I want to salute the people from the north. I have been there very often. I have been to Iqaluit and Kuujjuaq very often, and I think one of the biggest battles for you there is the price of food.
You'll have to be indulgent with me because my mother tongue is French. I'll try to do my best. I have my personal translator beside me, so if I do make mistakes she will correct me right away.
I also want to point out to you that I accepted that the meeting today would be conducted in Inuktitut and in English, even though both official languages in Canada are French and Inuktitut.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Bachand: I think this is a signal. Even though I am a sovereigntist, this is a signal of open-mindedness on my part. I just wanted to point that out to you.
Can you explain to me the difference or the relationship between ITC and you? There is something going on that I'd like to understand. I know that there's something for native women as well, and they are a side of what's going on with the first nations.
We received yesterday or the day before the women Métis from Canada. Even though there's a Métis organization in Canada, I know there's also ITC in Canada. Mrs. Kuptana, who is a woman, is driving ITC.
Can you explain to me why there has to be a group of women going beside ITC - or is it going hand in hand, or is it a fight over ITC? I don't know. I'd like you to help me out with that.
The other thing is equal representation. I have a problem with that. Even though I've been in trade unions for 20 years and we have been questioning ourselves on the participation of women in trade unions, we've always been inclined to favour the arrival of women in the high ranks - officers - of trade unions but we've never obliged ourselves to equal representation. I have a problem with that, even though I respect your intent.
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I might say that something could go very right. We should have women in all parts of politics and in a superior number to men. I think things would go much easier and much finer. But isn't that a competition against competency?
I know that I may be sending you some stereotyped things here, but that's the way I think people are thinking nowadays. I think if you have a group of women in Nunavut who have 52% of the population, that should be reflected in the Nunavut government. Why oblige yourselves to a specific representation or an equal representation? That's my question for now.
The Chairman: Before you answer I'd like to tell you that his intent is sincere. We know this gentleman well. He's not suggesting that your numbers are unreasonable; that's not what he's saying.
Ms Flaherty: All I can say is boy, you are behind.
[Witness continues in her native language]
The Chairman: The way we play politics in Ottawa is that when you don't have enough time to answer a question, you sneak in the answer with the next question.
Ms Greig: [Witness speaks in her native language].
The Chairman: We'll go now to Mr. Duncan.
Ms Flaherty: The other question he had?
The Chairman: We'll move on to the next questioner, Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Duncan (North Island - Powell River): I'm not sure where to start because you brought up so many issues.
On the women in the legislature, the table in your document does show British Columbia with the highest rate of women participating in Canada. I would say in British Columbia public opinion is probably one of the strongest against legislating this; they'd rather let it happen through the voters' choice. I have to assume that women in Nunavut or the Northwest Territories are voting for men. There must be other, underlying reasons for that.
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I wanted to go on to the housing crisis. You have a very important relationship with CMHC. I've read the CMHC annual report and I've had a fair look at your annual report. It still leaves me not really understanding how to resolve this situation because I don't think the current direction is going to solve the problem you have. I'm wondering if a new approach can be taken, if there's a way to break the logjam other than to ask and plead for more and run into a money crunch in terms of publicly generated money.
The Chairman: I'll ask you to respond in about three minutes, but you will have an opportunity for closing remarks. You will be given ample time.
Ms Mary Nashook (Secretary Treasurer, Pauktuutit (Inuit Women's Association of Canada)): [Witness speaks in her native language].
The Chairman: Very briefly.
Ms Greig: [Witness speaks in her native language].
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The Chairman: Mr. Bertrand.
Mr. Bertrand (Pontiac - Gatineau - Labelle): I would like to welcome Martha and her group back to this committee. I remember it from last year. I would also like to state that I wholeheartedly share her views on keeping Canada together.
I agree with the two-member constituency for all the reasons you gave, but I think there's another that is equally important. It's the sheer size of the new territory. Because my riding is extremely large, I know that if I had another MP who could go to different parts of the riding the constituents would be a lot better served.
I have one quick question. Would you see a fifty-fifty split like that for the ministers also, or would it just be for the MLAs?
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
Clara, who is one of the commissioners, can better answer.
The Chairman: Come forward, please.
Ms Clara O'Gorman (Board Member, Pauktuutit (Inuit Women's Association of Canada)): Right now the commission is looking at this proposal and it hasn't decided yet whether or not to go with it. We want to hear from the public first whether this is what they actually want. We're hearing more positive than negative at this point, but we haven't gone any further than having24 members and splitting it in half, half men and half women. That's as far as we've gone to this point. We haven't done any further research because we want to hear from the public.
Mr. Bertrand: That was basically my second question about the Nunavut Implementation Commission. How far have they studied this two-member constituency? Is it being talked about? Are they talking about it because you brought it up?
Ms O'Gorman: They are talking about it. It's in discussion right now. We have a pamphlet that went out to all the communities and we're hearing things back from them now. Most of them are positive.
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
The Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Murphy.
Mr. Murphy (Annapolis Valley - Hants): Thank you for your well-articulated presentation. I thought the issues you put forward were very clear. I suspect it's one of the clearest presentations we've had here.
On equality of representation, I buy into this. I understand clearly what you're saying. I have heard discussions on this matter before, and one of the avenues for approaching it is equality of representation for a period of time and then leave it open to competency. That's another way of looking at it. Then it sometimes satisfies both sides of the argument. That's just by the way.
You present a number of problems in your community. The other thing I wanted to talk about is how you get at them. Where do you start? Some people may say housing. Other people may say it's violence. Others may say substance abuse. It goes on and on.
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You also talked about economic development. I want to ask you to help me to understand. With economic development obviously come a great many by-products in terms of self esteem of the community as a whole, individuals, families, etc. Then at the community development level you can get at some of the more tangible kinds of problems like housing. I'm just wondering if those two have been tied together and if you have some examples of this tying together.
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
Mr. Murphy: I appreciate the history, but I also see a powerhouse sitting before me here, and I'm wondering how you're going to get some of the power you need to do some of the things you want. You talk about equalization of representation and so on, but how are you going to get at that?
The Chairman: You may want to address this in your closing remarks. I'll give you half a minute because we have to go on to Mr. Finlay. When the answers are long we have less time for questions.
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
What's wrong with fairness and cooperation?
The Chairman: Mr. Finlay.
Mr. Finlay (Oxford): I welcome the group and appreciate all your comments.
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I had the good fortune to go to Rankin Inlet and to Iqaluit with the minister for the reporting of the Nunavut Implementation Commission and the ITC. I met some of you then but as I recall, your group was not represented directly at the table. However, the idea of the twin representation of men and women in each riding did come up and was presented.
Madam President, I think you suggested in your remarks that our minister was not necessarily in favour of that. Am I wrong? It seems to me that the minister took an appropriate position with respect to the capital and said the people will decide. He refused to decide. Is this suggestion of the Nunavut Implementation Commission in some sort of danger?
I have to tell you, I think it's a fine idea. In human affairs, we surely don't have to be taught again that positions of power...that representation has to be won, has to be mandated, has to be fought for. We still haven't achieved it equally, I don't suppose, in many places in the world. Here you have a brand new country, in effect, and I think you should try it.
Is it in danger, or are you being a bit negative? Am I not reading the situation correctly? It seems to me that if that's what is proposed, that's what will be accepted by this government.
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
The Chairman: Thank you.
I think it would be a good move to offer each member a one-minute comment because so much has been said.
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Beforehand, I will make one comment. I would support anything the Inuit community decides. That's my position.
I would caution you about the dangers of fifty-fifty. Find a way to break ties, because there will be issues with the men on one side and the women on the other. You'll probably have a solution, but I know that the Senate is sometimes very close to fifty-fifty and it's very difficult to solve problems. I just make that comment, but I would support what the commission decides.
Monsieur Bachand.
Mr. Bachand: I heard you on the issue of rebuilding Canada and I do respect that. Even though I'm a sovereigntist, I know that people are more inclined to be towards Canada and to rebuild Canada than, as you say, to break it up.
I'd like to know your feelings about the fact that your representatives are not invited to the premiers' meeting coming up on June 20 and 21, the constitutional meeting. It looks like they want to rebuild Canada but without your participation. I'd like to know your feelings on that.
The Chairman: You can address that in your closing remarks.
Do you have any comments, Mr. Duncan?
Mr. Duncan: No, I think my comments would largely echo yours, Mr. Chair. I understand the creation of Nunavut and the fact that everyone is looking to the Nunavut Implementation Commission and the people in Nunavut to be the guiding light as opposed to federal domination of decision-making.
The Chairman: Is there anyone on this side for one minute?
Mr. Finlay: This is echoing what Mr. Duncan said. I think the whole Nunavut development and idea is very exciting and very important to the future not only of this country but probably the whole Arctic region.
The Chairman: Before I turn the floor over to you for closing remarks, I'd like to thank you again. You have proven to us that our decision to invite groups such as yours was a wise one, because we have learned lots and you have aroused our curiosity to learn more. The dialogue has started. I want to thank you very much for your contribution. Now I turn the floor over to you for three or four minutes.
Ms Flaherty: I want to talk all day.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
The Chairman: If you're longer than five minutes, you may be looking at an empty table.
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
Ms Greig: [Witness speaks in her native language].
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Thank God there were Inuit and Indians. He has that position. It's about time he learned to listen and be in partnership with us.
Also, for equality, don't quote me but this is sort of a joke. We are tired of being left barefoot and pregnant as if we had no mouths. We are very capable people. Because we're women we have men coming into the world and we also need men to multiply. I feel it is a very reasonable thing to work hand in hand so that women won't be left barefoot and pregnant again.
The Chairman: You are addressing the members of this committee. I think I can speak for each one of them when I say that we ended up as members of Parliament because we didn't like the way things were run. So we encourage you to speak up. You are speaking to people who are making a difference. This is our vocation. We are not in Ottawa because everything is running well. The day everything runs well in Canada I'm going fishing. That's it. I encourage you to be vocal and we will support you.
Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Duncan: I was just going to bring up the irony that all of us on this committee are men.
Ms Flaherty: You cannot win. We are going to take as much as we can.
Ms Nashook: [Witness speaks in her native language].
The Chairman: We'll have to finalize because we all have other meetings.
Ms Flaherty: [Witness speaks in her native language].
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
The meeting is adjourned.