[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Monday, March 11, 1996
.1536 
[English]
The Clerk of the Committee: Members, I see a quorum. Our first order of business is the election of a chair, and I'm ready to accept nominations to that effect at the moment.
Mr. Easter (Malpeque): I move that Joe McGuire take the chair of this committee.
Mr. Murphy (Annapolis Valley - Hants): Seconded.
Motion agreed to
The Clerk: Congratulations, Mr. McGuire. I invite you to take the chair.
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
Mrs. Ablonczy (Calgary North): Mr. Chairman, I'd like to nominate Mike Scott for vice-chairman of the committee.
The Chairman: I believe it's been customary that one vice-chair comes from the government side and one comes from the members of the official opposition. We could entertain motions to that effect.
Mrs. Ablonczy: Mr. Chairman, I believe in the last parliament, for example, several vice-chairs were from the third party. There's a precedent for this. Of course it's something the members of the committee should vote on, and I would also ask for a recorded vote on my motion, please, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: I believe a recorded vote is not in the procedure, but....
Are there any other nominations for vice-chair? Mr. Dhaliwal.
Mr. Dhaliwal (Vancouver South): I'd like to nominate Derek Wells.
The Chairman: It has been moved that Derek Wells be nominated as one vice-chair. Are there any other nominations?
Mrs. Ablonczy: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I believe the motion I made needs to be dealt with before further motions can be entertained.
The Chairman: It's been moved that Mike Scott be selected as vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.
Motion negatived
The Chairman: Are there any other nominations for the position?
Mrs. Ablonczy: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I asked for a recorded vote on my motion.
.1540
Mr. Reed (Halton - Peel): May I speak to that, Mr. Chair?
The Chairman: Yes.
Mr. Reed: I must ask the question, what is the point of a recorded vote? Do you wish it by secret ballot or do you wish an open vote?
Mrs. Ablonczy: I would like to have a recorded vote and that usually is just an open vote, like a polled vote.
Mr. Reed: Okay. I don't have any problem with that.
Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 2
The Chairman: We'll now proceed to the position of vice-chair. There are two positions available, one on the government side and one on the official opposition side.
[Translation]
Mrs. Dalphond-Guiral (Laval-Centre): I move that Mr. Yvan Bernier be elected Vice-Chair.
The Chairman: It is moved by Mrs. Dalphond-Guiral that Mr. Yvan Bernier be elected Vice-Chair.
[English]
Mr. Scott (Skeena): Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, I would like a recorded vote on this, please.
Motion agreed to: 6 yeas; 2 nays
The Chairman: Mr. Bernier is the first vice-chairman.
Now, for the position of second vice-chairman.
Mr. Easter: I move that Derek Wells be nominated.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: Everybody has copies of the agenda. Would somebody move that motion number 3 on page 2, on the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, be adopted.
Mr. Murphy: I so move.
The Chairman: It's moved by John Murphy that the chair, the two vice-chairs and other members appointed by the chair, after the usual consultations with the whips and the coordination of the different parties, do compose a subcommittee on agenda and procedure, provided that the subcommittee's membership reflects the same proportion as in the House.
Motion agreed to
The Chair: We'll need a mover for the printing of copies of the Minutes of Proceedings and the Evidence.
Mr. Dhaliwal: I so move.
The Chair: Mr. Dhaliwal moves that the committee print its Minutes of Proceedings and the Evidence when it receives evidence and that the number of copies printed be in accordance with guidelines from the Board of Internal Economy.
Motion agreed to
The Chair: We need a mover to authorize the chair to hold meetings. You will note that this provides that at least two members be present, including a member of the opposition. Do we have a mover?
Mr. Wells (South Shore): I so move.
.1545
The Chairman: It is moved by Mr. Wells that the chair be authorized to hold meetings in order to receive and authorize the publication of evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that at least two members be present, including a member of the opposition.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: We need a mover of the motion on transcripts of an in camera meeting.
Mr. Easter: I so move.
The Chairman: It is moved by Mr. Easter that one transcript of all in camera meetings be produced and kept in the committee clerk's office for consultation, and that all those transcripts be destroyed at the end of the session.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: We need a mover for number 6, on the Library of Parliament.
Mr. Dhaliwal: I so move.
The Chairman: Mr. Dhaliwal moves that the committee retain the services of one or more research officers from the Library of Parliament to assist the committee in its work under the direction of the chair and the committee.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: I present Alan to the committee, as a researcher for the first two years. I think most of us here know him and the work he has been able to do for us. We're very glad to have him back.
Mr. Alan Nixon (Committee Researcher): Thank you.
The Chairman: Do we have a mover for witness expenses?
Mr. Reed: On a point of order, it appears on here as if it's necessary to establish a number in terms of witnesses.
The Chairman: Not on my sheet.
Mr. Easter: In most committees it's two, is it not, Mr. Chair?
The Chairman: What is the committee's direction? Should we pay for two representatives per organization, or for three?
Mr. Easter: Two leaves more money available for other organizations.
The Chairman: Okay. Do we have a mover for the motion?
Mr. Easter: I so move.
The Chairman: It is moved by Mr. Easter that, at the discretion of the chair, reasonable travelling expenses be paid, as per the regulations established by the Board of Internal Economy, to witnesses invited to appear before the committee, and that for such payment of expenses a limit of two representatives per organization be established unless otherwise ordered by the steering committee.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: Do we have a mover for time allocation? Nobody was in favour of this.
It's been proposed by Mr. Bernier that the limits be ten minutes per party for the first round and five minutes per member for subsequent rounds.
Mr. Wells: I so move.
Mrs. Ablonczy: Just to comment on the motion, I've sat on committees where there was time allocation and on other committees where there was no time allocation. I found that it worked well both ways, but there is more flexibility if there is not specific time allocation, because sometimes there are issues that need to be explored more thoroughly.
The Chairman: In one of our travels to the west coast we as a committee decided to do away with time allocation, saying that it would be a complete interchange. No specific time was allocated.
As events occur, the committee can determine whether it will have very structured time allocation or very open exchange. We can decide that for ourselves.
Mrs. Ablonczy: Okay. I thought that was what we were deciding now.
The Chairman: We have in the past, and we can do that in the future.
.1550
Mr. Reed: Mr. Chairman, if I were a permanent member of this committee you would find the time allocation very useful in my case, because I tend to run on and on.
The Chairman: That's true. We have members of this committee who do the same thing.
Mr. Wells.
Mr. Wells: I think in the past we have agreed unanimously to waive that provision, but it's there in case it's necessary. We can be flexible, but I think it's there for the protection of the chair in the event that things get out of hand, as they might.
The Chairman: I think that is in keeping with past practice. We do have a structured time allocation, and I think we should have it moved and seconded. But as you say, Mr. Wells, we can agree to dispense with that with unanimous agreement by the committee, when required.
Do we have a mover?
The Clerk: Mr. Bernier has already moved it.
The Chairman: Mr. Bernier has already moved that during the questioning of witnesses at any meeting of the standing committee ten minutes per party be allocated for the first round of questions and five minutes per round for the subsequent rounds, provided every member or substitute member is offered the opportunity to question the witness.
Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
The Chairman: Do we have a mover for motion 9, to publish in both official languages?
Mr. Dhaliwal: I so move.
The Chairman: Mr. Dhaliwal moves that the clerk of the committee be authorized to distribute, in their original language, the documents received from the public, and that the clerk of the committee ensure such documents are promptly translated and distributed.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: We have a motion to cover working lunches. Mr. Murphy, are you looking hungry or just...?
Mr. Murphy: No. Since I'm not a permanent member of the group, would someone else do it?
Mr. Easter: I'll move it, Mr. Chairman. I know you get hungry.
The Chairman: Mr. Easter moves that the committee authorize the chair from time to time, as the need arises, to take, in conjunction with the clerk of the committee, the appropriate measures to provide lunches for the committee and the subcommittees for working purposes, the cost of these lunches to be charged to the budget of the committee.
Motion agreed to
The Chairman: Is there any other business members of the committee would like to bring up at this time?
[Translation]
Mr. Bernier (Gaspé): With regard to the steering committee, are we talking about the same kind of committee as the former Fisheries and Oceans committee had under the illustrious Mr. MacDonald, namely that a member of the Reform Party would be on the steering committee? Is that what this motion is all about?
If that is the case, I would like to know when the next steering committee meeting is, because there are a lot of problems in Canada, this great country. In fact, there were some in Nova Scotia just last week. Mr. Chairman, you said that matter had to be reviewed and that more hearings would have to be held on Fisheries bills. Therefore, I think we should have a meeting to decide on an agenda to study those matters.
[English]
The Chairman: Just to respond to Mr. Bernier.... The proposed Fisheries Act died at the prorogation of the last parliament. It has to be reintroduced before we can take it up. I have no idea when the minister will be reintroducing the Fisheries Act. I suspect it will be relatively soon. But until that time, I don't think we can deal with something we don't have before the House.
Is that correct, Mr. Clerk?
The Clerk: Yes.
The Chairman: Mr. Wells.
Mr. Wells: There are some issues that need attention. I would suggest that if it is possible the members of the steering committee could meet for a few minutes after this meeting to start talking about a process and what the agenda might be. I know there was some suggestion earlier that maybe we could do it later in the week, but I'd be happy to stay later today and sit for half an hour to discuss it because -
.1555
Mr. Bernier: If not more.
Mr. Wells: If not more. I think while we're here, rather than reconvene later in the week, why don't we just wait and spend a few minutes and -
The Chairman: Is that agreeable to members?
[Translation]
Mr. Bernier: I agree. Could we now move on to the nomination of members of the steering committee? Can we move that Mr. Scott be a member of that committee? I am automatically a member, as are Mr. Wells and yourself.
I would like the Reform Party to have some say in our agenda. Canada being what it is, we need Reformers, Liberals and members of the Bloc Québécois.
[English]
The Chairman: It's been proposed by Mr. Bernier that Mr. Scott be a member of the steering committee.
Mrs. Ablonczy: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, perhaps the clerk could help us. Is the composition of the standing committee dealt with at all in the Standing Orders?
The Clerk: No. Every committee has its own way of doing it. You usually have the chair and the two vice-chairs, and then the members of the committee just consult for the other members.
Mrs. Ablonczy: Okay, thank you.
The Clerk: In most cases the parliamentary secretary is also on that subcommittee.
Mr. Wells: Mr. Chairman, perhaps to the surprise of Mr. Scott, I think he should be a member of the steering committee representing the third party, as a west coast representative in particular; and I know we have others, but.... That's what we did last time, I believe.
The Chairman: We did.
Mr. Wells: I also think Mr. McWhinney should be -
The Chairman: The parliamentary secretary is automatic, I believe.
Mr. Wells: And that would give two representatives from the west coast on the steering committee, which I think would be appropriate.
The Chairman: So you're seconding Mr. Bernier's motion that Mr. Scott be -
Mr. Wells: Yes.
[Translation]
Mr. Bernier: My sudden fondness for Mr. Scott may come back to haunt me, but my colleague has told me that appointing other members... Apparently this is done after discussing the matter with the whips and coordinators of the different parties.
I do not want to meddle into something that is none of my business; I just want it to be noted that I would like a Reformer to be on that committee. So I must withdraw my motion.
[English]
The Chairman: I don't believe the government whip appoints a person from the opposition party. I think we can, but the whip doesn't do that. The whip will be informed.
Mr. Bernier: It's not me who wrote that.
Mr. Easter: Mr. Chair, you do have a motion, which duly passed, that does in effect say that after the usual consultations with the whips and coordinators of the different parties, which is already on here....
This is a different procedure from the one I'm accustomed to; usually we name the committee. But there is already a motion on the record that says the steering committee is the chair, the two vice-chairs and other members appointed by the chair after discussions with the whips of, in this case, the third party.
The Chairman: So if Mr. Scott's whip wishes to appoint him to the steering committee, that's up to Mr. Scott's -
Mr. Easter: Then you can authorize it, as chair. You already have that authority.
Mr. Wells: If we meet today for these purposes, I think he should stay and help us with the agenda, because I believe there are also some west coast issues that we need to deal with right away.
The Chairman: Anyone can stay as members of the committee. So maybe in five minutes we will reconvene to discuss future agenda. We'll go in camera.
Thank you all very much for coming, those who are leaving. You've performed a great service to your country here today.
An hon. member: Thank you for having us.
[Proceedings continue in camera]