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HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
36th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION


JOURNALS

No. 130

Thursday, October 1, 1998

10:00 a.m.



PRAYERS

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to the following petitions:

-- Nos. 361-1281 and 361-1282 concerning prostitution. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-361-89.

Introduction of Government Bills

Pursuant to Standing Orders 68(2) and 69(1), on motion of Mr. Manley (Minister of Industry), seconded by Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of National Revenue), Bill C-54, An Act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act, was introduced, read the first time, ordered to be printed and ordered for a second reading at the next sitting of the House.

Recommendation
(Pursuant to Standing Order 79(2))

      His Excellency the Governor General recommends to the House of Commons the appropriation of public revenue under the circumstances, in the manner and for the purposes set out in a measure entitled "An Act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act".

Presenting Petitions

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

-- by Mr. Williams (St. Albert), one concerning gun control (No. 361-1435);

-- by Mr. Blaikie (Winnipeg Transcona), thirteen concerning international trade (Nos. 361-1436 to 361-1448).

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The Order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Finance of Bill C-43, An Act to establish the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency and to amend and repeal other Acts as a consequence.

Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of National Revenue), seconded by Mr. Scott (Solicitor General of Canada), moved, -- That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.

Debate arose thereon.

Mr. Perron (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles), seconded by Mr. Cardin (Sherbrooke), moved the following amendment, -- That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word ''That'' and substituting the following:

    ''Bill C-43, An Act to establish the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency and to amend and repeal other Acts as a consequence be not now read a second time but that the Order be discharged, the Bill withdrawn and the subject-matter thereof referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.''

Debate arose thereon.

PRESENTING REPORTS FROM COMMITTEES

By unanimous consent, it was ordered, -- That the 36th Report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, the text of which follows, be deemed tabled and concurred in:

      The Committee recommends, pursuant to Standing Orders 104 and 114, that the list of members and associate members for Standing Committees of this House be as follows:

Aboriginal Affairs and Northern
Development

Members Peter Adams Gerald Keddy
Claude Bachand Derrek Konrad
John Bryden Judi Longfield
John Finlay Grant McNally
Ghislain Fournier Lawrence O'Brien
Louise Hardy Guy Saint-Julien
David Iftody Mike Scott
Nancy Karetak-Lindell Bryon Wilfert (16)

Associate Members Cliff Breitkreuz Reed Elley
René Canuel Maurice Godin
Serge Cardin Rick Laliberté
Bill Casey Gilles Perron
Pierre de Savoye Maurice Vellacott
Gordon Earle

Agriculture and Agri-Food

Members Hélène Alarie Howard Hilstrom
Paul Bonwick Jake Hoeppner
Rick Borotsik Larry McCormick
Garry Breitkreuz Joe McGuire
Murray Calder Denis Paradis
Denis Coderre Dick Proctor
Odina Desrochers Paul Steckle
John Harvard Rose-Marie Ur (16)

Associate Members Leon Benoit Réjean Lefebvre
Pierre Brien Lorne Nystrom
Rick Casson John Solomon
Michelle Dockrill Greg Thompson
Allan Kerpan Myron Thompson

Canadian Heritage

Members Mauril Bélanger Eric Lowther
Paul Bonwick Inky Mark
Sarmite Bulte Ted McWhinney
John Godfrey Dennis Mills
Joe Jordan Mark Muise
Raymond Lavigne Jim Pankiw
Wendy Lill Caroline St-Hilaire
Clifford Lincoln Suzanne Tremblay (16)

Associate Members Jim Abbott Gordon Earle
André Bachand Christiane Gagnon
Claude Bachand Monique Guay
Rick Borotsik Rick Laliberté
Cliff Breitkreuz Fancine Lalonde
Pierre Brien Peter MacKay
Serge Cardin Louis Plamondon
Antoine Dubé Benoît Sauvageau
Maurice Dumas Elsie Wayne

Citizenship and Immigration

Members Mark Assad Steve Mahoney
Jean Augustine Patrick Martin
Leon Benoit John McKay
Paul DeVillers Grant McNally
Norman Doyle Réal Ménard
Raymonde Folco Rey Pagtakhan
Jocelyne Girard-Bujold Jack Ramsay
Sophia Leung Andrew Telegdi (16)

Associate Members Claude Bachand Louise Hardy
Bernard Bigras Deepak Obhrai
Pierre Brien Benoît Sauvageau
Serge Cardin Diane St-Jacques
Libby Davies Daniel Turp
Monique Guay

Environment and Sustainable Development

Members Sarkis Assadourian Bill Gilmour
Gérard Asselin Jocelyne Girard-Bujold
Charles Caccia John Herron
Aileen Carroll Joe Jordan
Rick Casson Karen Kraft Sloan
Yvon Charbonneau Rick Laliberté
Paul Forseth David Pratt
Roger Gallaway Paddy Torsney (16)

Associate Members Jim Abbott Maurice Godin
Hélène Alarie Louise Hardy
Leon Benoit Gar Knutson
Bernard Bigras David Price
Pierre Brien Nelson Riis
Chuck Cadman Benoît Sauvageau
Serge Cardin Peter Stoffer
John Duncan Stéphan Tremblay

Finance

Members Carolyn Bennett Yvan Loubier
Maurizio Bevilacqua Gary Pillitteri
Scott Brison Karen Redman
Odina Desrochers Nelson Riis
Nick Discepola Gerry Ritz
Roger Gallaway Monte Solberg
Dick Harris Paul Szabo
Sophia Leung Tony Valeri (16)

Associate Members Diane Ablonczy Jason Kenney
Rob Anders Stan Keyes
Chris Axworthy Francine Lalonde
Rick Borotsik Peter MacKay
Pierre Brien Alexa McDonough
Serge Cardin Bob Mills
Norman Doyle Lorne Nystrom
Claude Drouin Gilles Perron
Antoine Dubé Pauline Picard
Ken Epp Charlie Power
Jocelyne Girard-Bujold Yves Rocheleau
John Herron John Solomon
Dale Johnston Stéphan Tremblay
Jim Jones Pierrette Venne

Fisheries and Oceans

Members Yvan Bernier Keith Martin
Joe Comuzzi Bill Matthews
John Cummins Lawrence O'Brien
Wayne Easter Carmen Provenzano
Charles Hubbard Yves Rocheleau
Nancy Karetak-Lindell Lou Sekora
Gar Knutson Paul Steckle
Gary Lunn Peter Stoffer (16)

Associate Members Gilles Bernier Philip Mayfield
René Canuel Denis Paradis
Paul Forseth Svend Robinson
Ghislain Fournier Mike Scott
Bill Gilmour Angela Vautour

Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Members Sarkis Assadourian Bernard Patry
Jean Augustine Charlie Penson
André Bachand Jerry Pickard
Colleen Beaumier Julian Reed
John Cannis Svend Robinson
Maud Debien Benoît Sauvageau
Sheila Finestone Bob Speller
Bill Graham Darrel Stinson
Bob Mills Daniel Turp (18)

Associate Members Claude Bachand Paul Mercier
Bill Blaikie Robert Nault
Sarmite Bulte Lorne Nystrom
Serge Cardin Deepak Obhrai
Gurmant Grewal Charlie Power
Monique Guay Nelson Riis
René Laurin John Solomon
Richard Marceau Diane St-Jacques
Keith Martin Chuck Strahl
Patrick Martin Stéphan Tremblay
Ted McWhinney

Health

Members Bernard Bigras Robert Nault
Elinor Caplan Denis Paradis
Aileen Carroll Pauline Picard
Reed Elley Greg Thompson
Grant Hill Rose-Marie Ur
Ovid Jackson Maurice Vellacott
Dan McTeague Joe Volpe
Maria Minna Judy Wasylycia-Leis (16)

Associate Members Pierre Brien Christiane Gagnon
Serge Cardin John Herron
Libby Davies Keith Martin
Pierre de Savoye Réal Ménard
Antoine Dubé Caroline St-Hilaire
Michelle Dockrill

Human Resources Development and the
Status of Persons with Disabilities

Members Diane Ablonczy Jean Dubé
Bernard Bigras Christiane Gagnon
Claudette Bradshaw John Godfrey
Bonnie Brown Albina Guarnieri
Brenda Chamberlain Dale Johnston
Hec Clouthier Larry McCormick
Denis Coderre John O'Reilly
Paul Crête Maurice Vellacott
Libby Davies Bryon Wilfert (18)

Associate Members Yvan Bernier Deborah Grey
Pierre Brien Wendy Lill
Serge Cardin Richard Marceau
Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Patrick Martin
Bev Desjarlais Réal Ménard
Michelle Dockrill Lorne Nystrom
Antoine Dubé Yves Rocheleau
Maurice Dumas Diane St-Jacques
Jocelyne Girard-Bujold Stéphan Tremblay
Yvon Godin Angela Vautour

Industry

Members Chris Axworthy Francine Lalonde
Sue Barnes Walt Lastewka
Eugene Bellemare Eric Lowther
Antoine Dubé Ian Murray
Rahim Jaffer Jim Pankiw
Marlene Jennings Janko Peric
Jim Jones Alex Shepherd
Stan Keyes Susan Whelan (16)

Associate Members Hélène Alarie Philip Mayfield
Pierre Brien Réal Ménard
Chuck Cadman Nelson Riis
Serge Cardin Benoît Sauvageau
Jean Dubé Werner Schmidt
Christiane Gagnon John Solomon
Jocelyne Girard-Bujold

Justice and Human Rights

Members Jim Abbott Derek Lee
Reg Alcock Peter Mackay
Eleni Bakopanos John Maloney
Michel Bellehumeur Peter Mancini
Chuck Cadman Richard Marceau
Shaughnessy Cohen John McKay
Paul DeVillers John Reynolds
Ivan Grose Jacques Saada (16)

Associate Members Bernard Bigras Keith Martin
Pierre Brien Réal Ménard
Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Mark Muise
Pierre de Savoye Jack Ramsay
Christiane Gagnon Svend Robinson
Jim Gouk Caroline St-Hilaire
Michel Guimond Diane St-Jacques
Louise Hardy Darrel Stinson
Dick Harris Randy White
Jay Hill

National Defence and Veterans Affairs

Members Rob Anders Judi Longfield
Robert Bertrand Pat O'Brien
Hec Clouthier John O'Reilly
Gordon Earle David Pratt
Maurice Godin David Price
Peter Goldring George Proud
Art Hanger John Richardson
René Laurin Bob Wood (16)

Associate Members Leon Benoit Patrick Martin
Pierre Brien Daniel Turp
Serge Cardin Pierrette Venne
Monique Guay Elsie Wayne
Peter Mancini

Natural Resources and Government Operations

Members Réginald Bélair Yvon Godin
Gilles Bernier Tony Ianno
Gerry Byrne Carolyn Parrish
Dave Chatters Beth Phinney
Roy Cullen Carmen Provenzano
Pierre de Savoye Werner Schmidt
John Duncan Benoît Serré
Christiane Gagnon Brent St. Denis (16)

Associate Members Jim Abbott Jocelyne Girard-Bujold
Hélène Alarie Jim Jones
Chris Axworthy Gerald Keddy
Cliff Breitkreuz Réjean Lefebvre
Pierre Brien Gilles Perron
René Canuel Nelson Riis
Serge Cardin Darrel Stinson
Jean-Guy Chrétien Angela Vautour
Michelle Dockrill Pierrette Venne
Ghislain Fournier

Public Accounts

Members Mark Assad Philip Mayfield
Eugene Bellemare Lynn Myers
Serge Cardin Lorne Nystrom
John Finlay Gilles Perron
Paul Forseth Beth Phinney
Ivan Grose Jerry Pickard Mac Harbn Elsie Wayne
Jason Kenney John Williams (17) Steve Mahoney

Associate Members Roy Bailey Christiane Gagnon
Garry Breitkreuz Jocelyne Girard-Bujold
Scott Brison Gurmant Grewal
Rick Casson Michel Guimond
Bev Desjarlais Jim Jones
Odina Desrochers Derrek Konrad
Michelle Dockrill Peter Stoffer
Antoine Dubé Pierrette Venne

Transport

Members Rob Anders Stan Dromisky
Roy Bailey Claude Drouin
Raymond Bonin Michel Guimond
Murray Calder Ovid Jackson
John Cannis Karen Kraft Sloan
Bill Casey Paul Mercier
Roy Cullen Lee Morrison
Bev Desjarlais Lou Sekora (16)

Associate Members Chris Axworthy Maurice Dumas
Yvan Bernierm zsGhislain Fournier
Rick Borotsik Rick Laliberté
Pierre Brien Yves Rocheleau
Serge Cardin Elsie Wayne
Paul Crête

      Pursuant to Standing Order 104(3), the Committee further recommends that the list of members and associate members for Standing Joint Committees of this House be as follows:

Library of Parliament

Members Roy Bailey Gurbax Malhi
Marlene Catterall Philip Mayfield
Hec Clouthier Paul Mercier
John Finlay Louis Plamondon
Deborah Grey David Price
Jim Karygiannis Karen Redman
Raymonde Lavigne Jacques Saada
Wendy Lill Brent St. Denis (16)

Associate Members Libby Davies Maurice Dumas

Official Languages

Members Mauril Bélanger Dan McTeague
Eugene Bellemare Ted McWhinney
Claudette Bradshaw Val Meredith
Denis Coderre Mark Muise
Sheila Finestone Denis Paradis
Peter Goldring Louis Plamondon
Bob Kilger Suzanne Tremblay
Inky Mark Angela Vautour (16)

Associate Members Pierre Brien Yvon Godin
Maurice Dumas Lorne Nystrom

Scrutiny of Regulations

Members Roy Bailey Derek Lee
John Bryden Gurbax Malhi
Bill Casey John Maloney
Paul DeVillers Ian Murray
Ken Epp Lorne Nystrom
Jim Gouk Jacques Saada
Gurmant Grewal Pierrette Venne
Marlene Jennings Tom Wappel (17) Ghislain Lebel

Associate Members Chris Axworthy Michel Guimond
Michel Bellehumeur Richard Marceau

      It is further recommended that a message be sent to the Senate to acquaint their Honours of the names of the members to serve on behalf of this House on the Standing Joint Committees.

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meeting No. 38) was tabled.

MOTIONS

By unanimous consent, it was ordered, -- That the following Standing Committees be permitted to meet later this day for the purposes of Standing Order 106:

The Standing Committee on Finance at 1:00 p.m.

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts at 3:30 p.m.

PRESENTING REPORTS FROM COMMITTEES

By unanimous consent, Mr. Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), from the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, presented the 37th Report of the Committee, which was as follows:

      In accordance with its mandate under Standing Order 92(1), your Committee has selected from among the items for which an order of precedence was established on or after Thursday, June 4, 1998, the following as votable items:
      C-219 -- Mr. Thompson (Wild Rose)
      M-239 -- Mr. Nystrom (Regina -- Qu'Appelle)
      M-360 -- Mr. Riis (Kamloops, Thompson and Highland Valleys)

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meeting No. 38), which includes this Report, was tabled.

Pursuant to Standing Order 92(2), the Report was deemed adopted.

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of National Revenue), seconded by Mr. Scott (Solicitor General of Canada), -- That Bill C-43, An Act to establish the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency and to amend and repeal other Acts as a consequence, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Finance;

And of the amendment of Mr. Perron (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles), seconded by Mr. Cardin (Sherbrooke).

The debate continued.

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS

Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.

ORAL QUESTIONS

Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of National Revenue), seconded by Mr. Scott (Solicitor General of Canada), -- That Bill C-43, An Act to establish the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency and to amend and repeal other Acts as a consequence, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Finance;

And of the amendment of Mr. Perron (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles), seconded by Mr. Cardin (Sherbrooke).

The debate continued.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

At 5:30 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(6), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Strahl (Fraser Valley), seconded by Mr. Hill (Prince George -- Peace River), -- That, in the opinion of this House, the government should bring in legislation making the tax deduction for contributions to charitable organizations no less than the tax deduction for contributions to political parties. (Private Members' Business M-318)

The debate continued.

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the Order was dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.

RETURNS AND REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(1), papers deposited with the Clerk of the House were laid upon the Table as follows:

-- by Ms. Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage) -- Report of the National Capital Commission on the administration of the Alternative Fuels Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8. -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-361-160. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development)

-- by Ms. Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage) -- Report of the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation on the administration of the Alternative Fuels Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8. -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-361-161. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development)

-- by Ms. Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage) -- Report of the Canadian Museum of Nature on the administration of the Alternative Fuels Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8. -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-361-166. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development)

-- by Ms. Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage) -- Report of the National Gallery of Canada on the administration of the Alternative Fuels Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8. -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-361-167. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development)

-- by Ms. Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage) -- Report of the National Museum of Science and Technology Corporation on the administration of the Alternative Fuels Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8. -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-361-170. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development)

PETITIONS FILED WITH THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, a petition certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions was filed as follows:

-- by Mr. Blaikie (Winnipeg Transcona), concerning the Canada Pension Plan (No. 361- 1449).

PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION

At 6:30 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 38(1), the question "That this House do now adjourn" was deemed to have been proposed.

After debate, the question was deemed to have been adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

At 6:36 p.m., the Speaker adjourned the House until tomorrow at 10:00 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).