HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION

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JOURNALS

No. 113

Friday, June 6, 2003

10:00 a.m.

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The Clerk informed the House of the unavoidable absence of the Speaker.

Whereupon, Mr. Kilger (Stormont—Dundas—Charlottenburgh) , Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole, took the Chair, pursuant to subsection 43(1) of the Parliament of Canada Act.

Prayers

Government Orders

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Industry) , seconded by Ms. Blondin-Andrew (Secretary of State (Children and Youth)) , — That the amendment made by the Senate to Bill C-15, An Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act, be now read a second time and concurred in.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to.

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The Order was read for the consideration of the amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals).

Mr. Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) for Mr. Cauchon (Minister of Justice) , seconded by Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources) , moved, — That a message be sent to the Senate to acquaint their Honours that this House agrees with amendments numbered 1 and 5 made by the Senate to Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals); but

Disagrees with amendment numbered 2 because the amendment is inconsistent with the other elements of the offence and makes the law less clear and because the amendment would collapse two offences with different elements into one single offence, leading to confusion about the elements of the offence and to problems for police and prosecutors;

Disagrees with amendment numbered 3 because it is unclear and creates confusion about whether the intent is to create a different test for liability of aboriginal persons and because there is no clarity as to what “traditional practices” are and how law enforcement can be expected to act accordingly; and

Agrees with the principle set out in amendment numbered 4, namely, the desire to reassure Canadians that no defences are lost, but, because the wording of the amendment would codify a reverse onus by requiring an accused person to prove his or her innocence on a balance of probabilities, would propose the following amendment:

Amendment numbered 4 be amended to read as follows:

Page 4, clause 2: Replace lines 22 to 24 with the following:

“182.5 For greater certainty, the defences set out in subsection 429(2) apply, to the extent that they are relevant, in respect of proceedings for an offence under this Part.”.

Debate arose thereon.

Statements By Members

Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.

Oral Questions

Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.

Daily Routine Of Business

Tabling of Documents

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Macklin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada) laid upon the Table, — Orders in Council concerning certain appointments made by the Governor General in Council, pursuant to Standing Order 110(1), as follows:

— P.C. 2003-734 and P.C. 2003-735. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-3-15. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage)

— P.C. 2003-728, P.C. 2003-729, P.C. 2003-730, P.C. 2003-731, P.C. 2003-732 and P.C. 2003-733. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-14-14. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration)

— P.C. 2003-744. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-7-05. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development)

— P.C. 2003-742 and P.C. 2003-743. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-8-14. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade)

— P.C. 2003-739, P.C. 2003-740, P.C. 2003-741, P.C. 2003-745, P.C. 2003-746, P.C. 2003-747 and P.C. 2003-798. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-4-14. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates)

— P.C. 2003-752, P.C. 2003-753, P.C. 2003-754, P.C. 2003-755, P.C. 2003-756, P.C. 2003-757 and P.C. 2003-758. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-16-12. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities)

— P.C. 2003-748, P.C. 2003-749, P.C. 2003-750 and P.C. 2003-751. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-22-14. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology)

— P.C. 2003-722, P.C. 2003-736, P.C. 2003-737, P.C. 2003-738 and P.C. 2003-797. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-13-10. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights)

— P.C. 2003-723, P.C. 2003-724, P.C. 2003-725, P.C. 2003-726 and P.C. 2003-727. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-5-13. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs)

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Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Macklin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada) laid upon the Table, — Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to the following petitions:

— Nos. 372-1049, 372-1081, 372-1201, 372-1202, 372-1205, 372-1208, 372-1209, 372-1264 to 372-1266, 372-1283, 372-1333, 372-1404, 372-1405, 372-1440, 372-1463, 372-1477, 372-1478, 372-1506, 372-1509, 372-1510, 372-1520 to 372-1522, 372-1568, 372-1569, 372-1583, 372-1584 and 372-1611 concerning war on Iraq. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-83-01;

— Nos. 372-1402 and 372-1418 to 372-1423 concerning pornography. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-25-27;

— Nos. 372-1413 to 372-1416 concerning the Divorce Act. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-27-07;

— No. 372-1503 concerning transportation. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-48-05;

— No. 372-1532 concerning the income tax system. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-34-09;

— Nos. 372-1556 and 372-1631 concerning health care services. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-13-09;

— Nos. 372-1618 and 372-1619 concerning stem cell research. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-14-39.

Introduction of Government Bills

Pursuant to Standing Orders 68(2) and 69(1), on motion of Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) , Bill C-42, An Act respecting the protection of the Antarctic Environment, was introduced, read the first time, ordered to be printed and ordered for a second reading at the next sitting of the House.

Recommendation
(Pursuant to Standing Order 79(2))

Her Excellency the Governor General recommends to the House of Commons the appropriation of public revenue under the circumstances, in the manner and for the purposes set out in a measure entitled “An Act respecting the protection of the Antarctic Environment”.

Presenting Reports from Committees

Mr. Williams (St. Albert) , from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, presented the 16th Report of the Committee (Chapter 1 of the September 2002 Report  of the Auditor General of Canada — Human Resources Development Canada: The Integrity of the Social Insurance Number). — Sessional Paper No. 8510-372-95.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee requested that the government table a comprehensive response.

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meetings Nos. 14, 32 and 34) was tabled.

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Mr. Williams (St. Albert) , from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, presented the 17th Report of the Committee (Public Accounts of Canada, 2001-2002, Volume II, Part II, Section 3). — Sessional Paper No. 8510-372-96.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee requested that the government table a comprehensive response.

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meetings Nos. 8, 13, 20, 32 and 34) was tabled.

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Mr. Williams (St. Albert) , from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, presented the 18th Report of the Committee (Chapter 4 of the September 2002 Status Report of the Auditor General of Canada — National Defence: NATO Flying Training in Canada). — Sessional Paper No. 8510-372-97.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee requested that the government table a comprehensive response.

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meetings Nos. 18, 33 and 34) was tabled.

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Mr. Williams (St. Albert) , from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, presented the 19th Report of the Committee (Chapter 8 of the December 2002 Report of the Auditor General of Canada — Public Works and Government Services Canada: Acquisition of Office Space). — Sessional Paper No. 8510-372-98.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee requested that the government table a comprehensive response.

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meetings Nos. 21 and 34) was tabled.

Presenting Petitions

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

— by Mr. Hill (Macleod) , five concerning the regulation of food and drugs (Nos. 372-1674 to 372-1678);

— by Mrs. Skelton (Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar) , three concerning the regulation of food and drugs (Nos. 372-1679 to 372-1681);

— by Ms. Thibeault (Saint-Lambert) , one concerning the Department of National Defence (No. 372-1682) and one concerning the National Missile Defence Program (No. 372-1683);

— by Ms. Catterall (Ottawa West—Nepean) , three concerning marriage (Nos. 372-1684 to 372-1686), two concerning stem cell research (Nos. 372-1687 and 372-1688) and one concerning the Canada Post Corporation (No. 372-1689);

— by Mr. Vellacott (Saskatoon—Wanuskewin) , three concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Nos. 372-1690 to 372-1692), five concerning marriage (Nos. 372-1693 to 372-1698), one concerning reproduction technologies (No. 372-1699) and one concerning the Robert Latimer case (No. 372-1700);

— by Mr. Adams (Peterborough) , one concerning stem cell research (No. 372-1701) and one concerning health care services (No. 372-1702);

— by Mr. Hill (Prince George—Peace River) , one concerning the income tax system (No. 372-1703);

— by Mr. Maloney (Erie—Lincoln) , one concerning marriage (No. 372-1704);

— by Mr. Robinson (Burnaby—Douglas) , one concerning nuclear weapons (No. 372-1705);

— by Mr. Grewal (Surrey Central) , one concerning pornography (No. 372-1706), one concerning the Canada Post Corporation (No. 372-1707) and one concerning stem cell research (No. 372-1708);

— by Mr. Reid (Lanark—Carleton) , one concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (No. 372-1709), one concerning marriage (No. 372-1710), one concerning pornography (No. 372-1711) and one concerning the Canada Post Corporation (No. 372-1712).

Questions on Order Paper

Mr. Macklin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada) presented the answer to question Q-226 on the Order Paper.

Government Orders

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Cauchon (Minister of Justice) , seconded by Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources) , — That a message be sent to the Senate to acquaint their Honours that this House agrees with amendments numbered 1 and 5 made by the Senate to Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals); but

Disagrees with amendment numbered 2 because the amendment is inconsistent with the other elements of the offence and makes the law less clear and because the amendment would collapse two offences with different elements into one single offence, leading to confusion about the elements of the offence and to problems for police and prosecutors;

Disagrees with amendment numbered 3 because it is unclear and creates confusion about whether the intent is to create a different test for liability of aboriginal persons and because there is no clarity as to what “traditional practices” are and how law enforcement can be expected to act accordingly; and

Agrees with the principle set out in amendment numbered 4, namely, the desire to reassure Canadians that no defences are lost, but, because the wording of the amendment would codify a reverse onus by requiring an accused person to prove his or her innocence on a balance of probabilities, would propose the following amendment:

Amendment numbered 4 be amended to read as follows:

Page 4, clause 2: Replace lines 22 to 24 with the following:

“182.5 For greater certainty, the defences set out in subsection 429(2) apply, to the extent that they are relevant, in respect of proceedings for an offence under this Part.”.

The debate continued.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on division.

Private Members' Business

At 1:50 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.

The Order was read for the consideration at report stage of Bill C-250, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda), as deemed reported by the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights without amendment.

Pursuant to Standing Order 76.1(5), the Deputy Speaker selected and grouped for debate the following motions:

Group No. 1 — Motions Nos. 1 to 3.

Group No. 1

Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , seconded by Mrs. Barnes (London West) , moved Motion No. 1, — That Bill C-250 be amended by adding after line 9 on page 1 the following new clause:

“2. (1) Paragraph 319(3)(b) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;”

Mr. Toews (Provencher) , seconded by Mr. Grewal (Surrey Central) , moved Motion No. 2, — That Bill C-250 be amended by adding after line 9 on page 1 the following new clause:

“2. Subsection 319(6) of the the Act is replaced by the following:

(6) No proceeding for an offence under subsection (1) or (2) shall be instituted without the consent of the Attorney General.”

Mr. Toews (Provencher) , seconded by Mr. Grewal (Surrey Central) , moved Motion No. 3, — That Bill C-250 be amended by adding after line 9 on page 1 the following new clause:

“3. The definition “hate propaganda” in subsection 320(8) of the Act is replaced by the following:

“hate propaganda” means any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319 and does not include any religious text or part thereof;”

Debate arose on the motions in Group No. 1.

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the Order was dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.

Returns and Reports Deposited with the Clerk of the House

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(1), papers deposited with the Clerk of the House were laid upon the Table as follows:

— by the Deputy Speaker — Report of Committees Activities and Expenditures for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003. — Sessional Paper No. 8527-372-10.

— by Mr. McCallum (Minister of National Defence) — Report of the Judge Advocate General to the Minister of National Defence on the administration of military justice in the Canadian Forces for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the National Defence Act, S.C. 1998, c. 35, s. 2. — Sessional Paper No. 8560-372-735-01. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs)

Adjournment

At 2:50 p.m., the Deputy Speaker adjourned the House until Monday at 11:00 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).