House Publications
The Debates are the report—transcribed, edited, and corrected—of what is said in the House. The Journals are the official record of the decisions and other transactions of the House. The Order Paper and Notice Paper contains the listing of all items that may be brought forward on a particular sitting day, and notices for upcoming items.
For an advanced search, use Publication Search tool.
If you have any questions or comments regarding the accessibility of this publication, please contact us at accessible@parl.gc.ca.
HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION
JOURNALS
No. 72
Tuesday, March 18, 2003
10:00 a.m.
Prayers
Daily Routine Of Business
Tabling of Documents
Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, — Orders in Council concerning certain appointments made by the Governor General in Council, pursuant to Standing Order 110(1), as follows:
— P.C. 2003-242, P.C. 2003-243, P.C. 2003-244 and P.C. 2003-245. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-3-10. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage)
— P.C. 2003-236, P.C. 2003-237 and P.C. 2003-261. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-14-09. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration)
— P.C. 2003-248. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-8-11. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade)
— P.C. 2003-259. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-4-09. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates)
— P.C. 2003-249. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-18-05. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Health)
— P.C. 2003-252, P.C. 2003-253, P.C. 2003-254, P.C. 2003-255 and P.C. 2003-256. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-16-08. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities)
— P.C. 2003-235, P.C. 2003-246 and P.C. 2003-247. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-13-08. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights)
— P.C. 2003-251. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-17-01. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs)
— P.C. 2003-239, P.C. 2003-240 and P.C. 2003-241. — Sessional Paper No. 8540-372-24-08. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(6), referred to the Standing Committee on Transport)
Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, — Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to the following petitions:
— No. 372-0922 concerning the income tax system. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-34-04;
— Nos. 372-0943, 372-0995, 372-1011, 372-1033, 372-1040, 372-1048, 372-1066 and 372-1073 concerning the Canada Post Corporation. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-1-12;
— No. 372-0945 concerning pornography. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-25-20.
Presenting Reports from Committees
Mr. Bélanger (Ottawa—Vanier) , from the Standing Committee on Official Languages, presented the Third Report of the Committee (quorum). — Sessional Paper No. 8510-372-44.
A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meeting No. 14) was tabled.
Introduction of Private Members' Bills
Pursuant to Standing Orders 68(2) and 69(1), on motion of Ms. Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North Centre) , seconded by Mr. Godin (Acadie—Bathurst) , Bill C-410, An Act to amend the Food and Drugs Act (mandatory labelling for genetically modified foods), was introduced, read the first time, ordered to be printed and ordered for a second reading at the next sitting of the House.
Presenting Petitions
Pursuant to Standing Order 36, a petition certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions was presented as follows:
— by Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , one concerning stem cell research (No. 372-1206).
Questions on Order Paper
Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) presented the answers to questions Q-118, Q-144, Q-148 and Q-149 on the Order Paper.
Government Orders
The House resumed consideration at report stage of Bill C-13, An Act respecting assisted human reproduction, as reported by the Standing Committee on Health with amendments;
And of the motions in Group No. 2 (Motions Nos. 13, 14, 16 to 18, 20 to 24, 26, 27, 40 and 47).
Group No. 2
Motion No. 13 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 29 and 30 on page 4 with the following:
“(a) create a human clone by using any technique, or transplant a human clone into a human being or into any non-human life form or artificial device;”
Motion No. 14 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 32 on page 4 with the following:
“purpose other than human reproduction”
Motion No. 16 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 35 and 36 on page 4 with the following:
“(c) create an embryo from a cell or part”
Motion No. 17 of Mr. Kenney (Calgary Southeast) , seconded by Mr. Merrifield (Yellowhead) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 5 on page 5 the following:
“(d.1) experiment on or harvest an embryo;”
Motion No. 18 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 6 and 7 on page 5 with the following:
“(e) perform any procedure or provide,”
Motion No. 20 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 20 on page 5 the following:
“(g.1) transplant a sperm, ovum, embryo or foetus of a human being into a non-human life form;”
Motion No. 21 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 21 and 22 on page 5 with the following:
“(h) make use of any human reproductive”
Motion No. 22 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 27 to 31 on page 5 with the following:
“life form;
(j) create a hybrid for the purpose of reproduction, or transplant a hybrid into either a human being or a non-human life form; or
(k) clone a human embryo for research or human reproductive purposes.”
Motion No. 23 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 27 to 31 on page 5 with the following:
“life form;
(j) create a hybrid for the purpose of reproduction, or transplant a hybrid into either a human being or a non-human life form; or
(k) combine any part or any proportion of the human genome with any part of the genome of a non-human species.”
Motion No. 24 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 27 to 31 on page 5 with the following:
“life form;
(j) create a hybrid for the purpose of reproduction, or transplant a hybrid into either a human being or a non-human life form; or
(k) cryogenically store embryos once ova storage techniques are perfected to at least the same survival rate of stored
Motion No. 26 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 28 and 29 on page 5 with the following:
“(j) create a hybrid or transplant a hybrid into”
Motion No. 27 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13 be amended by adding after line 37 on page 5 the following new clause:
“5.1 No person shall create human reproductive material by the process of parthenogenesis or a similar process.”
Motion No. 40 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13 be amended by adding after line 23 on page 7 the following new clause:
“9.1 For greater certainty, therapeutic cloning, also referred to as “somatic cell nuclear transfer”, is prohibited.”
Motion No. 47 of Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Bryden (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot) , — That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 11.
The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 2.
Motions
By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That, at 5:30 p.m. today, when the Speaker puts all questions necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and the Income Tax Act (political financing), the bells to call in the Members shall not ring for more than 15 minutes.
Government Orders
The House resumed consideration at report stage of Bill C-13, An Act respecting assisted human reproduction, as reported by the Standing Committee on Health with amendments;
And of the motions in Group No. 2 (Motions Nos. 13, 14, 16 to 18, 20 to 24, 26, 27, 40 and 47).
The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 2.
The question was put on Motions Nos. 13, 14, 16, 17, 20, 22 to 24, 26, 27, 40 and 47 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76.1(8), the recorded divisions were deferred.
Group No. 3
Ms. Bennett (St. Paul's) , seconded by Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , moved Motion No. 28, — That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 6.
Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , seconded by Mr. Tonks (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment) , moved Motion No. 29, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing line 5 on page 6 with the following:
“such services, except for medical or legal counselling services received in support of informed consent.”
Ms. Bennett (St. Paul's) , seconded by Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , moved Motion No. 30, — That Bill C-13 be amended by deleting Clause 7.
Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , moved Motion No. 32, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing line 26 on page 6 with the following:
“for the purchase of an in vitro embryo, a foetus or any foetal tissue; or”
Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , moved Motion No. 33, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing lines 26 to 28 on page 6 with the following:
“for the purchase of an in vitro embryo, or any part of one; or
(b) sell, offer for sale or advertise for sale an in vitro embryo, or any part of one.”
Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , moved Motion No. 36, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing line 28 on page 6 with the following:
“in vitro embryo, a foetus or any foetal tissue.”
Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , moved Motion No. 39, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 16 on page 7 the following:
“(4) A donor may not transfer to another person the ownership, or any of the rights or obligations of ownership, of an embryo or any other human reproductive material.”
Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , moved Motion No. 44, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 10, be amended by adding after line 38 on page 7 the following:
“(4) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, adopt an embryo for the purposes of human reproduction.”
Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , seconded by Mr. Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River) , moved Motion No. 45, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 10, be amended by adding after line 38 on page 7 the following:
“(4) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations and a licence, use human reproductive material or an embryo, or any part of one, for the purpose of providing education or training related to assisted human reproduction.”
Ms. Bennett (St. Paul's) , seconded by Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , moved Motion No. 46, — That Bill C-13 be amended by adding after line 38 on page 7 the following new clause:
“10.1 (1) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, pay consideration to a female person to be a surrogate mother, offer to pay such consideration or advertise that it will be paid.
(2) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, accept consideration for arranging for the services of a surrogate mother, offer to make such an arrangement for consideration or advertise the arranging of such services.
(3) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, pay consideration to another person to arrange for the services of a surrogate mother, offer to pay such consideration or advertise the payment of it.
(4) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, counsel or induce a female person to become a surrogate mother, or perform any medical procedure to assist a female person to become a surrogate mother, knowing or having reason to believe that the female person is under 21 years of age.
(5) This section does not affect the validity under provincial law of any agreement under which a person agrees to be a surrogate mother. ”
Ms. Bennett (St. Paul's) , seconded by Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , moved Motion No. 49, — That Bill C-13 be amended by adding after line 7 on page 8 the following new clause:
“11.1 (1) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, purchase, offer to purchase or advertise for the purchase of sperm or ova from a donor or a person acting on behalf of a donor.
(2) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations
(a) purchase, offer to purchase or advertise for the purchase of an in vitro embryo; or
(b) sell, offer for sale or advertise for sale an in vitro embryo.
(3) No person shall, except in accordance with the regulations, purchase, offer to purchase or advertise for the purchase of a human cell or gene from a donor or a person acting on behalf of a donor, with the intention of using the gene or cell to create a human being or of making it available for that purpose.
(4) In this section, “purchase” or “sell” includes to acquire or dispose of in exchange for property or services. ”
Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , seconded by Mr. Tonks (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment) , moved Motion No. 51, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 12, be amended by adding after line 22 on page 8 the following:
“(3) No person shall reimburse a surrogate mother for a loss of work-related income incurred during her pregnancy, unless
(a) a qualified medical practitioner certifies, in writing, that continuing to work may pose a risk to her health or that of the embryo or feotus; and
(b) the reimbursement is made in accordance with the regulations and a licence.”
Ms. Fry (Vancouver Centre) , seconded by Mr. Tonks (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment) , moved Motion No. 95, — That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by replacing lines 12 to 14 on page 30 with the following:
“(e) for the purposes of subsection 12(1), respecting the reasonable expenditures that may be reimbursed under a licence;
(e.1) for the purposes of subsection 12(3), respecting the reimbursement of a loss of income;”
Debate arose on the motions in Group No. 3.
Mr. Telegdi (Kitchener—Waterloo) , seconded by Ms. Torsney (Burlington) , moved the following amendment, — That Motion No. 46 be amended by adding in Clause 10.1(1), (2), (3) and (4) after the words “except in accordance with the regulations” the following:
“and a licence”
Mr. Telegdi (Kitchener—Waterloo) , seconded by Ms. Torsney (Burlington) , moved the following amendment, — That Motion No. 49 be amended by adding in Clause 11.1(1), (2) and (3) after the words “except in accordance with the regulations” the following:
“and a licence”
The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 3.
Statements By Members
Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.
Oral Questions
Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.
Vacancies
The Speaker informed the House that a vacancy had occurred in the representation in the House of Commons, for the Electoral District of Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, in the Province of Quebec, by reason of the resignation of Mr. Dubé, and that, pursuant to paragraph 25(1)(b) of the Parliament of Canada Act, he had addressed, earlier today, his warrant to the Chief Electoral Officer for the issue of a writ for the election of a member to fill the vacancy.
Government Orders
The Order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Transport of Bill C-26, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act and the Railway Safety Act, to enact the VIA Rail Canada Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.
Mr. Collenette (Minister of Transport) , seconded by Mrs. Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development) , moved, — That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Transport.
Debate arose thereon.
Motions
By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That, in relation to its study on long-term care for veterans, the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs of the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs be authorized to travel to Eastern Canada from March 31 to April 4, 2003, and that the necessary staff do accompany the Committee.
By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That, in relation to its study of the Great Lakes and the St-Lawrence Seaway System, a group comprised of five government Members and one member of each of the opposition parties of the Subcommittee on Marine Transportation of the Standing Committee on Transport be authorized to travel to Sarnia, Ontario, in April 2003, and that the necessary staff do accompany the Subcommittee.
By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That, in relation to its study of the Great Lakes and the St-Lawrence Seaway System, a group comprised of five government Members and one member of each of the opposition parties of the Subcommittee on Marine Transportation of the Standing Committee on Transport be authorized to travel to Chicago in April 2003, and that the necessary staff do accompany the Subcommittee.
By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That, in relation to its examination in view of strengthening economic relations between Canada and Asia-Pacific, a group of nine members of the Subcommittee on International Trade, Trade Disputes and Investment of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade be authorized to travel to the Asia-Pacific Region from May 2 to 17, 2003, and that the necessary staff do accompany the Committee.
Government Orders
The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Collenette (Minister of Transport) , seconded by Mrs. Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development) , — That Bill C-26, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act and the Railway Safety Act, to enact the VIA Rail Canada Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Transport.
The debate continued.
Pursuant to Order made Monday, March 17, 2003, the House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) , seconded by Mr. Collenette (Minister of Transport) , — That Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and the Income Tax Act (political financing), be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
The House proceeded to the putting of the question on the amendment of Mr. Harper (Calgary Southwest) , seconded by Mr. Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast) , — That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “That” and substituting the following:
“this House decline to give second reading to Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and the Income Tax Act, because the Bill shifts the sources of contributions to political parties from the voluntary actions of people and organizations to a mandatory imposition on all taxpayers, making political parties more dependent upon the state and less responsive to society.”.
The question was put on the amendment and it was negatived on the following division:
|
YEAS: 48, NAYS: 197
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pursuant to Order made Monday, March 17, 2003, the House proceeded to the putting of the question on the motion of Mr. Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) , seconded by Mr. Collenette (Minister of Transport) , — That Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and the Income Tax Act (political financing), be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:
|
YEAS: 200, NAYS: 50
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||
Accordingly, the Bill was read the second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
DEFERRED RECORDED DIVISIONS
Government Orders
Pursuant to Order made Thursday, February 27, 2003, the House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Industry) , seconded by Mr. Thibault (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans) , — That Bill C-15, An Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act, be now read a third time and do pass.
The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:
|
YEAS: 162, NAYS: 88
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||
Accordingly, the Bill was read the third time and passed.
Pursuant to Order made Friday, February 28, 2003, the House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , seconded by Mr. Cauchon (Minister of Justice) , — That Bill C-2, An Act to establish a process for assessing the environmental and socio-economic effects of certain activities in Yukon, be now read a third time and do pass.
The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:
|
YEAS: 202, NAYS: 48
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||
Accordingly, the Bill was read the third time and passed.
Pursuant to Order made Friday, February 28, 2003, the House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , seconded by Mr. Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources) , — That Bill C-6, An Act to establish the Canadian Centre for the Independent Resolution of First Nations Specific Claims to provide for the filing, negotiation and resolution of specific claims and to make related amendments to other Acts, be now read a third time and do pass.
The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:
|
YEAS: 153, NAYS: 97
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||
Accordingly, the Bill was read the third time and passed.
Ways and Means Proceedings
Pursuant to Order made Thursday, February 27, 2003, the House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of Mr. Manley (Minister of Finance) , seconded by Mr. Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) , — That this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the Government. (Ways and Means Proceedings No. 2)
The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:
|
YEAS: 153, NAYS: 97 (See list under Division No. 58) |
Private Members' Business
At 6:10 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.
Mr. Herron (Fundy—Royal) , seconded by Mr. Clark (Calgary Centre) , moved, — That, in the opinion of this House, the government should consider eliminating the parental contribution standard from the Canada Student Loan program. (Private Members' Business M-205)
Debate arose thereon.
Pursuant to Standing Order 96(1), the Order was dropped from the Order Paper.
Adjournment Proceedings
At 7:10 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 38(1), the question “That this House do now adjourn” was deemed to have been proposed.
After debate, the question was deemed to have been adopted.
At 7:20 p.m., the Speaker adjourned the House until tomorrow at 2:00 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).