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HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
35TH PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION


JOURNALS

No. 192

Tuesday, May 2, 1995

10:00 a.m.



PRAYERS

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

Mr. Harb (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade) for Mr. MacLaren (Minister for International Trade) laid upon the Table, -- Summary of the Report to Treasury Board on Canada Account Operations for the fiscal year 1993-94, by the Export Development Corporation. -- Sessional Paper No. 8530-351-17A.


Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Milliken (Parliamentary Secretary to the Government House Leader in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petitions Nos. 351-2365, 351-2541, 351-2659 and 351-2809 concerning radio and television programming. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-25H.


Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Milliken (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government response, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petition No. 351-2850 concerning the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545- 351-61B.

Presenting Reports from Inter-parliamentary Delegations

Pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), Mr. Boudria (Glengarry -- Prescott -- Russell) presented the Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée internationale des parlementaires de langue française (AIPLF) respecting its participation at the Bureau meeting held in Bamako, Mali on March 6 and 7, 1995. -- Sessional Paper No. 8565-351-52F.

Presenting Petitions

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

-- by Mr. Knutson (Elgin -- Norfolk), one concerning radio and television programming (No. 351-2987);

-- by Mr. Harb (Ottawa Centre), one concerning the Young Offenders Act (No. 351-2988);

-- by Mr. Gilmour (Comox -- Alberni), one concerning euthanasia (No. 351-2989) and one concerning sexual assault (No. 351-2990).

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The Order was read for the consideration of the Business of Supply.

Mr. Bouchard (Lac-Saint-Jean), seconded by Mr. Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe -- Bagot), moved, -- That this House denounce the will of the federal government to restrict the provinces to the role of mere consultant by imposing on them new national standards for all social programs through the introduction of the Canada Social Transfer, which will enable the federal government to interfere even more in such areas as health, post-secondary education and social assistance, all of which come under exclusive provincial jurisdiction.

Debate arose thereon.

Mrs. Ablonczy (Calgary North), seconded by Mr. Williams (St. Albert), moved the following amendment, -- That the motion be amended by adding immediately following the word ``denounce'' the following:

    ``, for the sake of national unity,''.

Debate arose thereon.

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS

Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.

ORAL QUESTIONS

Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Bouchard (Lac-Saint-Jean), seconded by Mr. Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe -- Bagot), in relation to the Business of Supply;

And of the amendment of Mrs. Ablonczy (Calgary North), seconded by Mr. Williams (St. Albert).

The debate continued.

At 5:15 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 81(16), the Speaker interrupted the proceedings.

The question was put on the amendment and it was negatived on the following division:



(Division--Vote No 202)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Breitkreuz (Yellowhead) -- Bridgman -- Cummins -- Duncan -- Epp -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Gilmour -- Gouk -- Grey (Beaver River) -- Grubel -- Hanger -- Hanrahan -- Harper (Simcoe Centre) -- Harris -- Hayes -- Hermanson -- Hill (Macleod) -- Hill (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Hoeppner -- Jennings -- Johnston -- Manning -- Mayfield -- McClelland (Edmonton Southwest) -- Meredith -- Mills (Red Deer) -- Morrison -- Penson -- Ramsay -- Ringma -- Scott (Skeena) -- Silye -- Solberg -- Speaker -- Stinson -- Strahl -- Thompson -- Wayne -- White (Fraser Valley West) -- Williams -- 41

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Adams -- Allmand -- Althouse -- Anderson -- Arseneault -- Assad -- Assadourian -- Asselin -- Axworthy (Saskatoon -- Clark's Crossing) -- Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre) -- Bachand -- Beaumier -- Bellehumeur -- Bellemare -- Bergeron -- Bernier (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Bertrand -- Bethel -- Bevilacqua -- Blaikie -- Blondin-Andrew -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Bouchard -- Boudria -- Brien -- Brown (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Bélisle -- Calder -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Canuel -- Caron -- Catterall -- Cauchon -- Chamberlain -- Chan -- Chrétien (Frontenac) -- Chrétien (Saint-Maurice) -- Clancy -- Collenette -- Collins -- Comuzzi -- Copps -- Cowling -- Crête -- Culbert -- Dalphond-Guiral -- Daviault -- Debien -- de Jong -- de Savoye -- Deshaies -- DeVillers -- Dingwall -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Dubé -- Duceppe -- Duhamel -- Dumas -- Dupuy -- Easter -- Eggleton -- English -- Fewchuk -- Fillion -- Finlay -- Flis -- Fontana -- Fry -- Gagliano -- Gagnon (Québec) -- Gallaway -- Gauthier (Roberval) -- Gerrard -- Godfrey -- Godin -- Goodale -- Graham -- Gray (Windsor West) -- Grose -- Guarnieri -- Guay -- Guimond -- Harb -- Harvard -- Hickey -- Hopkins -- Ianno -- Iftody -- Irwin -- Jackson -- Jacob -- Karygiannis -- Keyes -- Kirkby -- Knutson -- Kraft Sloan -- Lalonde -- Landry -- Langlois -- Lastewka -- Lavigne (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- Lavigne (Verdun -- Saint-Paul) -- Lebel -- LeBlanc (Cape/Cap-Breton Highlands -- Canso) -- Leblanc (Longueuil) -- Lee -- Leroux (Richmond -- Wolfe) -- Leroux (Shefford) -- Lincoln -- Loubier -- MacDonald -- MacLaren -- MacLellan (Cape/Cap-Breton -- -- Malhi -- Maloney -- Manley -- The Sydneys) -- Marchand -- Martin (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Massé -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McLaughlin -- McLellan (Edmonton Northwest) -- McTeague -- Mercier -- Mifflin -- Milliken -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Murphy -- Murray -- Nault -- Nunez -- O'Brien -- O'Reilly -- Ouellet -- Pagtakhan -- Paradis -- Parrish -- Paré -- Patry -- Payne -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Picard (Drummond) -- Pickard (Essex -- Kent) -- Pomerleau -- Proud -- Reed -- Regan -- Richardson -- Riis -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Rocheleau -- Rompkey -- Sauvageau -- Scott (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Serré -- Shepherd -- Sheridan -- Solomon -- Speller -- St-Laurent -- St. Denis -- Steckle -- Stewart (Brant) -- Szabo -- Taylor -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Thalheimer -- Torsney -- Tremblay (Rosemont) -- Ur -- Valeri -- Vanclief -- Venne -- Walker -- Wappel -- Wells -- Whelan -- Young -- Zed -- 192

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Bernier (Gaspé) -- Hubbard -- Laurin -- Lefebvre -- MacAulay -- Marleau -- Ménard -- Robillard -- Rock -- Tremblay (Rimouski -- Témiscouata)

The question was put on the main motion and it was negatived on the following division:



(Division--Vote No 203)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Asselin -- Bachand -- Bellehumeur -- Bergeron -- Bernier (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Bouchard -- Brien -- Bélisle -- Canuel -- Caron -- Chrétien (Frontenac) -- Crête -- Dalphond-Guiral -- Daviault -- Debien -- de Savoye -- Deshaies -- Dubé -- Duceppe -- Dumas -- Fillion -- Gagnon (Québec) -- Gauthier (Roberval) -- Godin -- Guay -- Guimond -- Jacob -- Lalonde -- Landry -- Langlois -- Lavigne (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- Lebel -- Leblanc (Longueuil) -- Leroux (Richmond -- Wolfe) -- Leroux (Shefford) -- Loubier -- Marchand -- Mercier -- Nunez -- Paré -- Picard (Drummond) -- Pomerleau -- Rocheleau -- Sauvageau -- St-Laurent -- Tremblay (Rosemont) -- Venne -- 47

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Adams -- Allmand -- Althouse -- Anderson -- Arseneault -- Assad -- Assadourian -- Axworthy (Saskatoon -- Clark's Crossing) -- Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre) -- Beaumier -- Bellemare -- Bertrand -- Bethel -- Bevilacqua -- Blaikie -- Blondin-Andrew -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Boudria -- Breitkreuz (Yellowhead) -- Bridgman -- Brown (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Calder -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Catterall -- Cauchon -- Chamberlain -- Chan -- Chrétien (Saint-Maurice) -- Clancy -- Collenette -- Collins -- Comuzzi -- Copps -- Cowling -- Culbert -- Cummins -- de Jong -- DeVillers -- Dingwall -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Duhamel -- Duncan -- Dupuy -- Easter -- Eggleton -- English -- Epp -- Fewchuk -- Finlay -- Flis -- Fontana -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Fry -- Gagliano -- Gallaway -- Gerrard -- Gilmour -- Godfrey -- Goodale -- Gouk -- Graham -- Gray (Windsor West) -- Grey (Beaver River) -- Grose -- Grubel -- Guarnieri -- Hanger -- Hanrahan -- Harb -- Harper (Simcoe Centre) -- Harris -- Harvard -- Hayes -- Hermanson -- Hickey -- Hill (Macleod) -- Hill (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Hoeppner -- Hopkins -- Ianno -- Iftody -- Irwin -- Jackson -- Jennings -- Johnston -- Karygiannis -- Keyes -- Kirkby -- Knutson -- Kraft Sloan -- Lastewka -- Lavigne (Verdun -- Saint-Paul) -- LeBlanc (Cape/Cap-Breton Highlands -- Canso) -- Lee -- Lincoln -- MacDonald -- MacLaren -- MacLellan (Cape/Cap-Breton -- The Sydneys) -- Malhi -- Maloney -- Manley -- Manning -- Martin (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Massé -- Mayfield -- McClelland (Edmonton Southwest) -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McLaughlin -- McLellan (Edmonton Northwest) -- McTeague -- Meredith -- Mifflin -- Milliken -- Mills (Red Deer) -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Morrison -- Murphy -- Murray -- Nault -- O'Brien -- O'Reilly -- Ouellet -- Pagtakhan -- Paradis -- Parrish -- Patry -- Payne -- Penson -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Pickard (Essex -- Kent) -- Proud -- Ramsay -- Reed -- Regan -- Richardson -- Rideout -- Riis -- Ringma -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Rompkey -- Scott (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Scott (Skeena) -- Serré -- Shepherd -- Sheridan -- Silye -- Solberg -- Solomon -- Speaker -- Speller -- St. Denis -- Steckle -- Stewart (Brant) -- Stinson -- Strahl -- Szabo -- Taylor -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Thalheimer -- Thompson -- Torsney -- Ur -- Valeri -- Vanclief -- Volpe -- Walker -- Wappel -- Wayne -- Wells -- Whelan -- White (Fraser Valley West) -- Williams -- Young -- Zed -- 188

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Bernier (Gaspé) -- Hubbard -- Laurin -- Lefebvre -- MacAulay -- Marleau -- Ménard -- Robillard -- Rock -- Tremblay (Rimouski -- Témiscouata)


Pursuant to Standing Order 45(5)(a), the House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Gray (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), seconded by Mr. Massé (President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs), -- That a Special Joint Committee of the Senate and the House of Commons be appointed to develop a Code of Conduct to guide Senators and Members of the House of Commons in reconciling their official responsibilities with their personal interests, including their dealings with lobbyists;

That seven Members of the Senate and fourteen Members of the House of Commons be the Members of the Committee, and the Members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs be appointed to act on behalf of the House as Members of the said Committee;

That changes in the membership, on the part of the House of Commons, of the Committee be effective immediately after a notification signed by the member acting as the chief Whip of any recognized party has been filed with the clerk of the Committee;

That the Committee be directed to consult broadly and to review the approaches taken with respect to these issues in Canada and in other jurisdictions with comparable systems of government;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the House;

That the Committee have the power to report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have the power to retain the services of expert, professional, technical and clerical staff;

That a quorum of the Committee be 11 Members whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, so long, as both Houses are represented and that the Joint Chairpersons be authorized to hold meetings, to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof, whenever six Members are present, so long as both Houses are represented;

That the Committee be empowered to appoint, from among its Members, such sub-committees as may be deemed advisable, and to delegate to such sub-committees all or any of its powers except the power to report to the Senate and House of Commons;

That the Committee be empowered to authorize television and radio broadcasting of any or all of its proceedings;

That the Committee make its final report no later than October 31, 1995;

That, notwithstanding usual practices, if the Senate is not sitting when the final report of the Committee is completed, the report may be deposited with the Clerk of the Senate and it shall thereupon be deemed to have been presented to that House; and

That a Message be sent to the Senate requesting that House to unite with this House for the above purpose, and to select, if the Senate deem advisable, Members to act on the proposed Special Joint Committee. (Government Business No. 24)

The House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the amendment of Mr. Bélisle (La Prairie), seconded by Mr. Langlois (Bellechasse), -- That the motion be amended:

    (a) by deleting, in the first paragraph, the words ``Special Joint'', ``the Senate and'' and ``Senators and'';
    (b) by deleting, in the second paragraph, the words ``seven Members of the Senate and'';
    (c) by replacing, in the eighth paragraph,
      (i) the number ``11'' with the following:
        ``8'';
      (ii) in both occurences, the word ``Houses'' with the following:
        ``Opposition parties'';
      (ii) the words ``Joint Chairpersons'' with the following:
        ``Chairperson'';
    (d) by deleting, in the ninth paragraph, the words ``Senate and'';
    (e) by deleting the twelfth paragraph;
    (f) by deleting the thirteenth paragraph.

The question was put on the amendment and it was negatived on the following division:



(Division--Vote No 204)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Asselin -- Bachand -- Bellehumeur -- Bergeron -- Bernier (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Bouchard -- Breitkreuz (Yellowhead) -- Bridgman -- Brien -- Bélisle -- Canuel -- Caron -- Chrétien (Frontenac) -- Crête -- Cummins -- Dalphond-Guiral -- Daviault -- Debien -- de Savoye -- Deshaies -- Dubé -- Duceppe -- Dumas -- Duncan -- Epp -- Fillion -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Gagnon (Québec) -- Gauthier (Roberval) -- Gilmour -- Godin -- Gouk -- Grey (Beaver River) -- Grubel -- Guay -- Guimond -- Hanger -- Hanrahan -- Harper (Simcoe Centre) -- Harris -- Hayes -- Hermanson -- Hill (Macleod) -- Hill (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Hoeppner -- Jacob -- Jennings -- Johnston -- Lalonde -- Landry -- Langlois -- Lavigne (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- Lebel -- Leblanc (Longueuil) -- Leroux (Richmond -- Wolfe) -- Leroux (Shefford) -- Loubier -- Manning -- Marchand -- Mayfield -- McClelland (Edmonton Southwest) -- Mercier -- Meredith -- Mills (Red Deer) -- Morrison -- Nunez -- Paré -- Penson -- Picard (Drummond) -- Pomerleau -- Ramsay -- Ringma -- Rocheleau -- Sauvageau -- Scott (Skeena) -- Silye -- Solberg -- Speaker -- St-Laurent -- Stinson -- Strahl -- Thompson -- Tremblay (Rosemont) -- Venne -- White (Fraser Valley West) -- Williams -- 87

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Adams -- Allmand -- Althouse -- Anderson -- Arseneault -- Assad -- Assadourian -- Axworthy (Saskatoon -- Clark's Crossing) -- Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre) -- Beaumier -- Bellemare -- Bertrand -- Bethel -- Bevilacqua -- Blaikie -- Blondin-Andrew -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Boudria -- Brown (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Calder -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Catterall -- Cauchon -- Chamberlain -- Chan -- Chrétien (Saint-Maurice) -- Clancy -- Collenette -- Collins -- Comuzzi -- Copps -- Cowling -- Culbert -- de Jong -- DeVillers -- Dingwall -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Duhamel -- Dupuy -- Easter -- Eggleton -- English -- Fewchuk -- Finlay -- Flis -- Fontana -- Fry -- Gagliano -- Gallaway -- Gerrard -- Godfrey -- Goodale -- Graham -- Gray (Windsor West) -- Grose -- Guarnieri -- Harb -- Harvard -- Hickey -- Hopkins -- Ianno -- Iftody -- Irwin -- Jackson -- Karygiannis -- Keyes -- Kirkby -- Knutson -- Kraft Sloan -- Lastewka -- Lavigne (Verdun -- Saint-Paul) -- LeBlanc (Cape/Cap-Breton Highlands -- Canso) -- Lee -- Lincoln -- MacDonald -- MacLaren -- MacLellan (Cape/Cap-Breton -- -- Malhi -- Maloney -- Manley -- The Sydneys) -- Martin (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Massé -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McLaughlin -- McLellan (Edmonton Northwest) -- McTeague -- Mifflin -- Milliken -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Murphy -- Murray -- Nault -- O'Brien -- O'Reilly -- Ouellet -- Pagtakhan -- Paradis -- Parrish -- Patry -- Payne -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Pickard (Essex -- Kent) -- Proud -- Reed -- Regan -- Richardson -- Rideout -- Riis -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Rompkey -- Scott (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Serré -- Shepherd -- Sheridan -- Solomon -- Speller -- St. Denis -- Steckle -- Stewart (Brant) -- Szabo -- Taylor -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Thalheimer -- Torsney -- Ur -- Valeri -- Vanclief -- Volpe -- Walker -- Wappel -- Wayne -- Wells -- Whelan -- Young -- Zed -- 148

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Bernier (Gaspé) -- Hubbard -- Laurin -- Lefebvre -- MacAulay -- Marleau -- Ménard -- Robillard -- Rock -- Tremblay (Rimouski -- Témiscouata)

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

At 5:55 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.

The Order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Disabled Persons of Bill C-291, An Act respecting a national year of the grandparent.

Mr. Reed (Halton -- Peel), seconded by Mr. Regan (Halifax West), moved, -- That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Disabled Persons.

Debate arose thereon.

Pursuant to Standing Order 96(1), for the Order was dropped from the Order Paper.

PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION

At 6:44 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 38(1), the question ``That this House do now adjourn'' was deemed to have been proposed.

After debate, the question was deemed to have been adopted.

RETURNS AND REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(1), a paper deposited with the Clerk of the House was laid upon the Table as follows:

-- by Mr. Young (Minister of Transport) -- Report of Marine Atlantic Inc., together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 1994, pursuant to subsection 150(1) of the Financial Administration Act, Chapter F-11, Revised Statutes of Canada, 1985. -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-351-622A. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Transport)

ADJOURNMENT

At 7:04 p.m., the House adjourned until tomorrow at 2:00 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).