HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
37th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION

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JOURNALS

No. 146

Thursday, February 21, 2002

10:00 a.m.

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Prayers

Daily Routine Of Business

Tabling of Documents

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, — Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to the following petitions:

— No. 371-0538 concerning cruelty to animals. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-371-80-05;

— Nos. 371-0540 and 371-0559 concerning pornography. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-371-27-05.

Presenting Reports from Inter-parliamentary Delegations

Pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), Mr. Patry (Pierrefonds--Dollard) presented the Report of the Canadian parliamentary delegation of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie (APF) respecting its participation at the meeting of the APF Political Committee, held in Paris, France, from January 25 to 27, 2002. — Sessional Paper No. 8565-371-52-08.

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Pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), Mr. Patry (Pierrefonds--Dollard) presented the Report of the Canadian parliamentary delegation of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie (APF) respecting its participation at the APF Bureau meeting, held in Paris, France, on January 28 and 29, 2002. — Sessional Paper No. 8565-371-52-09.

Presenting Reports from Committees

Mr. Bélanger (Ottawa--Vanier) , from the Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages, presented the Seventh Report of the Committee (Air Canada: Good intentions are not enough!). — Sessional Paper No. 8510-371-131.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee requested that the government table a comprehensive response.

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meetings Nos. 8 to 10, 12 to 15, 19 to 21, 24 and 25) was tabled.

By unanimous consent, Mr. Reid (Lanark — Carleton) presented a dissenting report, which was appended to the Seventh Report of the Committee

Presenting Petitions

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

— by Mr. Adams (Peterborough) , one concerning environmental pollution (No. 371-0579) and one concerning health care services (No. 371-0580).

Questions on Order Paper

Pursuant to Standing Order 39(7), Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) presented the return to the following question made into an order for return:

Q-84 — Mr. MacKay (Pictou--Antigonish--Guysborough) — With respect to victims of crime, what is the number of lawsuits filed against Corrections Service Canada and the National Parole Board since 1988, and what is the nature of each such lawsuit? — Sessional Paper No. 8555-371-84.

Government Orders

The House resumed consideration at report stage of Bill C-5, An Act respecting the protection of wildlife species at risk in Canada, as reported by the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development with amendments;

And of the motions in Group No. 1 (Motions Nos. 1, 12, 13, 28, 103 to 108, 111, 121 and 128).

Group No. 1

Motion No. 1 of Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , — That Bill C-5, in the preamble, be amended by replacing lines 22 to 24 on page 2 with the following:

“landowners should be compensated for any financial or material losses to ensure that the costs of conserving species at risk are shared equitably by all Canadians,”

Motion No. 12 of Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , seconded by Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing line 5 on page 8 with the following:

“6. The purposes of this Act, to be pursued in a cost-effective manner, are to prevent”

Motion No. 13 of Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing line 5 on page 8 with the following:

“6. The purposes of this Act, to be pursued in a manner consistent with the socio-economic interests of Canadians, are to prevent”

Motion No. 28 of Mr. Burton (Skeena) , seconded by Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 11, be amended by adding after line 29 on page 11 the following:

“(4) The agreement shall provide for fair and reasonable financial or material support, unless there is an agreement otherwise.”

Motion No. 103 of Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Burton (Skeena) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing lines 13 to 15 on page 36 with the following:

“64.(1) The Minister shall, in accordance with the regulations, provide full, just and timely compensation to any person for losses”

Motion No. 104 of Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing line 13 on page 36 with the following:

“64.(1) The Minister shall, in accordance”

Motion No. 105 of Mr. Burton (Skeena) , seconded by Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing lines 14 and 15 on page 36 with the following:

“with the regulations, provide fair market value compensation to any person for losses”

Motion No. 106 of Mr. Burton (Skeena) , seconded by Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing line 15 on page 36 with the following:

“able compensation to any person for loss of use or enjoyment of property”

Motion No. 107 of Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing line 15 on page 36 with the following:

“able compensation to any person — including landowners, lessees and other persons affected by or having a legal interests in the property — for losses”

Motion No. 108 of Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing lines 16 and 17 on page 36 with the following:

“suffered as a result of the application of”

Motion No. 111 of Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Burton (Skeena) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 64, be amended by replacing line 36 on page 36 with the following:

“sion of compensation, including rules for the recovery of reasonable legal and other costs arising as a result of the compensation claim.”

Motion No. 121 of Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , seconded by Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , — That Bill C-5, in Clause 97, be amended by deleting lines 21 to 26 on page 56.

Motion No. 128 of Mr. Casson (Lethbridge) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , — That Bill C-5 be amended by adding after line 3 on page 69 the following new clause:

“124.1 The Minister shall, in all circumstances, advise the affected landowner, lessee or land user of the location of a wildlife species or its habitat.”

The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 1.

The question was put on Motions Nos. 1, 12, 28, 103, 111, 121 and 128, and, pursuant to Standing Order 76.1(8), the recorded divisions were deferred.

Group No. 2

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 2, — That Bill C-5, in the preamble, be amended by adding after line 27 on page 2 the following:

“the protection of habitats and species on provincial lands is entirely under provincial jurisdiction,”.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 11, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing line 41 on page 7 with the following:

“living organisms on federal lands or under the continental".

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada), for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 23, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 10.1, be amended by replacing lines 4 to 6 on page 10 with the following:

“10.1 The Minister, after consultation with the Canadian Endangered Species Conservation Council, may establish a stewardship action plan that creates”.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) , for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 35, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 27, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 6 to 34 on page 17 with the following:

“27. (1) The Governor in Council may, on the recommendation of the Minister, by order, amend the List by adding a wildlife species, by reclassifying a listed wildlife species or by removing a listed wildlife species.”

(b) deleting lines 5 to 13 on page 18.

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 39, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 32, be amended by replacing line 30 on page 19 with the following:

“32. (1) No person shall knowingly kill, harm, harass,”.

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 44, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 33, be amended by replacing line 10 on page 20 with the following:

“33. No person shall knowingly damage or destroy the”.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 48, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 17 to 24 on page 20.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 49, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by

(a) replacing line 25 on page 20 with the following:

“(2) The Governor in Council may, on the”

(b) deleting lines 39 to 45 on page 20 and lines 1 to 10 on page 21;

(c) replacing lines 14 to 21 on page 21 with the following:

“(a) the appropriate provincial minister; and

(b) if the species is found in an area in respect of which a wildlife management board is authorized by a land claims agreement to perform functions in respect of wildlife species, the wildlife management board.”.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 50, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 25 to 33 on page 20.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 51, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 34 to 38 on page 20.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 52, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 39 to 45 on page 20.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 53, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 1 to 4 on page 21.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 54, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 5 to 7 on page 21.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 55, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 34, be amended by deleting lines 8 to 21 on page 21.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 56, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 35, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 22 to 26 on page 21 with the following:

“35. (1) Sections 32 and 33 apply in each of the territories in respect of a listed wildlife species only to the extent that the Governor in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister, makes an order providing that they, or any of them, apply.”

(b) replacing line 37 on page 21 with the following:

“protect the species or the residences of its individuals.”

(c) deleting lines 38 to 44 on page 21 and lines 1 to 13 on page 22;

(d) replacing lines 17 to 24 on page 22 with the following:

“ter; and

(b) if the species is found in an area in respect of which a wildlife management board is authorized by a land claims agreement to perform functions in respect of wildlife species, consult the wildlife management board.”

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 57, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 36, be amended by replacing line 28 on page 22 with the following:

“territorial minister, no person shall knowingly”.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 67, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 39, be amended by replacing line 34 on page 23 with the following:

“39. (1) The recovery”.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 74, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 48, be amended by replacing line 31 on page 27 with the following:

“48. (1) An action plan”.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 78, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 53, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 15 and 16 on page 30 with the following:

“53. (1) The competent minister must,”

(b) deleting lines 29 to 32 on page 30.

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 80, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 58, be amended by replacing line 39 on page 31 with the following:

“58. (1) No person shall knowingly destroy any part of”.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 84, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 58, be amended by replacing lines 41 to 47 on page 31, lines 1 to 42 on page 32 and lines 1 to 7 on page 33 with the following:

"species or of a listed threatened species — or of a listed extirpated species if a recovery strategy has recommended the reintroduction of the species into the wild in Canada —

(a) if the critical habitat is on federal lands, in the exclusive economic zone of Canada or on the continental shelf of Canada;

(b) if the listed species is an aquatic species; or

(c) if the listed species is a species of migratory birds protected by the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994.

(2) If a portion of the critical habitat is in a national park, a marine protected area under the Oceans Act, a migratory bird sanctuary under the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994 or a national wildlife area under the Canada Wildlife Act, the competent Minister must, within 90 days after the recovery strategy or action plan that identified the critical habitat is included in the public registry, publish in the Canada Gazette a description of the portion of the critical habitat that is in that park, area or sanctuary.

(3) If subsection (2) applies, subsection (1) applies to the portion of the critical habitat described in the Canada Gazette under subsection (2) 90 days after the description is published in the Canada Gazette.

(4) With respect to any of the following, subsection (1) applies only to the portions of the critical habitat that the Governor in Council may, on the recommendation of the competent minister, after consultation with every other competent minister, by order, specify:

(a) federal lands that are not in a park, area or sanctuary referred to in subsection (2);

(b) the exclusive economic zone of Canada;

(c) the continental shelf of Canada;

(d) aquatic species; and

(e) species of migratory birds protected by the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994.

(5) The competent minister must, within 180 days after the recovery strategy or action plan that identified the critical habitat is included in the public registry, make the recommendation if he or she is of the opinion that there are no provisions in, or other measures under, this or any other Act of Parliament that protect the particular portion of the critical habitat, including agreements under section 11.

(6) If the competent minister is of the opinion that the order would affect land in a territory that is not under the authority of the Minister or the Parks Canada Agency, he or she must consult the territorial minister before recommending the making of the order.

(7) If the competent minister is of the opinion that the order would affect a reserve or any other lands that are set apart for the use and benefit of a band under the Indian Act, he or she must consult the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs and the band before recommending the making of the order.

(8) If the competent minister is of the opinion that the order would affect an area in respect of which a wildlife management board is authorized by a land claims agreement to perform functions in respect of wildlife species, he or she must consult the wildlife management board before recommending the making of the order.".

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 86, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 60, be amended by replacing line 12 on page 34 with the following:

“rial minister, no person shall knowingly destroy any part”.

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 90, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by replacing line 22 on page 34 with the following:

“61. (1) No person shall knowingly destroy any part of”.

Mr. Burton (Skeena) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 94, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by replacing lines 22 to 40 on page 34 and lines 1 to 40 on page 35 with the following:

“61. No person shall destroy any part of the critical habitat of an aquatic species or of a listed endangered species or a listed threatened species that is a species of migratory birds protected by the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994, that is in a province or territory and is not on federal land.”.

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 95, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by deleting lines 27 to 40 on page 34 and lines 1 to 40 on page 35.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 96, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 28 to 40 on page 34 and lines 1 to 17 on page 35 with the following:

“respect of an aquatic species or a species of migratory birds protected by the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994.

(2) Subsection (1) applies only to the portions of the critical habitat that the Governor in Council may, on the recommendation of the Minister, by order, specify.

(3) The Minister may make a recommendation if

(a) a provincial minister or territorial minister has requested that the recommendation be made; or

(b) the Canadian Endangered Species Conservation Council has recommended that the recommendation be made.”

(b) replacing line 28 on page 35 with the following:

“not effectively protect the particular portion of the”.

Mr. Burton (Skeena) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 97, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by replacing lines 32 to 40 on page 34 and lines 1 to 15 on page 35 with the following:

“(3) The Minister may make a recommendation if a provincial or territorial minister has requested that the recommendation be made.”.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 98, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by deleting lines 38 to 40 on page 34.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 99, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by deleting lines 1 to 5 on page 35.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 100, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by deleting lines 6 to 8 on page 35.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 101, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by deleting lines 9 to 11 on page 35.

Ms. Lalonde (Mercier) , seconded by Mr. Asselin (Charlevoix) , moved Motion No. 102, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 61, be amended by deleting lines 12 to 15 on page 35.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 112, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 65, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 37 and 38 on page 36 with the following:

“65. If a wildlife species is listed as”

(b) deleting lines 1 to 6 on page 37.

Mr. MacAulay (Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Anderson (Minister of the Environment) , seconded by Mr. Nault (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development) , moved Motion No. 113, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 68, be amended by replacing lines 1 to 11 on page 38 with the following:

“68. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the competent minister must include a proposed management plan in the public registry within three years after the wildlife species is listed as a species of special concern.

(2) With respect to a wildlife species that is set out in Schedule 1 as a species of special concern on the day section 27 comes into force, the competent minister must include a proposed management plan in the public registry within five years after that day.

(3) Within 60 days after the proposed management plan is included in the public registry, any person may file written comments with the competent minister.

(4) Within 30 days after the expiry of the period referred to in subsection (3), the competent minister must consider any comments received, make any changes to the proposed management plan that he or she considers appropriate and finalize the management plan by including a copy of it in the public registry.”.

Mr. Reid (Lanark--Carleton) , seconded by Mr. Mills (Red Deer) , moved Motion No. 122, — That Bill C-5, in Clause 100, be amended by replacing lines 16 and 17 on page 57 with the following:

“100. A person is not guilty of an offence under this Act unless the person knowingly committed the act that is the subject of the offence.”.

Debate arose on the motions in Group No. 2.

Statements By Members

Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.

Oral Questions

Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.

Government Orders

The House resumed consideration at report stage of Bill C-5, An Act respecting the protection of wildlife species at risk in Canada, as reported by the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development with amendments;

And of the motions in Group No. 2 (Motions Nos. 2, 11, 23, 35, 39, 44, 48 to 57, 67, 74, 78, 80, 84, 86, 90, 94 to 102, 112, 113 and 122).

The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 2.

Motions

By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That at the conclusion of the debate later today on motion M-296, all questions necessary to dispose of the motion be deemed put and a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders.

Government Orders

The House resumed consideration at report stage of Bill C-5, An Act respecting the protection of wildlife species at risk in Canada, as reported by the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development with amendments;

And of the motions in Group No. 2 (Motions Nos. 2, 11, 23, 35, 39, 44, 48 to 57, 67, 74, 78, 80, 84, 86, 90, 94 to 102, 112, 113 and 122).

The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 2.

Private Members' Business

At 5:30 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(6), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Williams (St. Albert) , seconded by Mr. Hanger (Calgary Northeast) , — That, in the opinion of this House, the government should fully implement the recommendations of the 51st Report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs in the First Session of the 36th Parliament, entitled "The Business of Supply: Completing the Circle of Control". (Private Members' Business M-296)

The debate continued.

Pursuant to Order made earlier today, the question was deemed put on the motion and the recorded division was deemed requested and deferred until Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders.

Messages from the Senate

A message was received from the Senate as follows:

— ORDERED: That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Canadian Commercial Corporation Act, without amendment.

Returns and Reports Deposited with the Clerk of the House

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(1), a paper deposited with the Clerk of the House was laid upon the Table as follows:

— by Mr. Goodale (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) — Return to the Order made Tuesday, December 4, 2001 for copies of all studies that were done prior to the banning of the 2% and 5% solutions of strychnine to show the effect that the banning of these solutions would have on Canadian farmers. (Private Members' Business P-3 — Mr. Benoit (Lakeland) ) — Sessional Paper No. 8550-371-3.

Petitions Filed with the Clerk of the House

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, a petition certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions was filed as follows:

— by Mr. Lunn (Saanich--Gulf Islands) , concerning China (No. 371-0581).

Adjournment

At 6:18 p.m., the Speaker adjourned the House until tomorrow at 10:00 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).