:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
First of all, let me assure you I'm not beyond excited, but I've come right up to the line.
Second, if I may, just as a point of clarification, you said I was here with an entourage and that's not entirely true. I'm here with my team and I'm delighted to have these fine people with me here today.
I'm joined this morning by Deputy Minister Stefanie Beck. I'm also joined by the vice chief of the defence staff, Lieutenant-General Stephen Kelsey. Our ADM of materiel, Nancy Tremblay, has joined us this morning. Also, from CSE, we have our ADM, Wendy Hadwen.
These are important members of our team and I'm sure they'll be able to provide information and insight over the course of my appearance here and later on in their own appearances later this morning.
Mr. Chair and members of the Standing Committee on National Defence, good morning and thank you for the kind invitation to appear before you to discuss my priorities as Minister of National Defence and to endeavour to answer any questions that you may have.
I believe very sincerely that it's good to check in regularly, given the volatility and rapid evolution of the threat environment that Canada and the rest of the world are facing. As the security landscape is shifting, so too must our priorities. We must do whatever is required to defend our nation and to keep Canadians safe. The job that we ask of our CAF members is a difficult and challenging one. We are doing everything we can to support them in that mission.
The world has changed considerably since the mandate letter was issued in 2021. As you'll recall, that was well before Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine. It was before an emboldened China ramped up its assertive, subversive and coercive behaviours and it was before the conflict in the Middle East began spilling over, at great risk to regional and global security.
While we've made considerable progress advancing our 2021 mandate, we've also had to reprioritize and adapt in response to this changing context.
My greatest priority will always be our people and that is a constant that must never change. We remain focused on making sure that they have the support and the resources they need to continue their excellent work that they do on behalf of our country.
For example, we know that CAF families are often at the bottom of local child care wait-lists when relocated or redeployed on short notice. That's why Canada's renewed defence policy, “Our North, Strong and Free”, commits $100 million over five years to enhance child care services for CAF personnel and their families.
We also know that frequent relocations and deployment create unique challenges for our military families when it comes to housing. Our Canadian Forces housing differential came into effect in July 2023 to help CAF members who are living off base adjust to housing costs when relocating in Canada. We are also going to invest in significant new housing for our members. We need to increase housing availability on bases to make sure CAF members and their families have safe, affordable housing.
We're putting forward vital initiatives to ensure that our defence team members have the resources and infrastructure that they need to thrive in their important roles. Serving one's country can be a difficult and challenging occupation. It should not be made more challenging by the conditions under which they serve.
We are also addressing a significant priority of culture change. We have to make sure that all of our CAF members feel well supported by the organization and their nation that they have sworn to protect. Since 2021, we've made some significant progress on Justice Arbour's 48 recommendations in her independent external comprehensive review of the Canadian Armed Forces to implement meaningful and long-lasting cultural change for the Canadian Armed Forces.
I think one of our best examples for that happened just a few weeks ago when Parliament began its second reading of Bill , which will ensure the Criminal Code sexual assault cases in the CAF will be tried in the civilian justice system instead of in military court.
I want to take the opportunity to thank all members present here for their support of that legislation. I very much look forward to us completing second reading and bringing this bill before this committee to allow the committee to do its important work to make sure it is the best bill for the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. I believe that all the changes we're working on together will lead to durable military justice reform and it's going to help CAF members and the Canadian public regain trust in our system.
We're also very focused on making new investment. In response to an evolving global threat environment, we're also investing significantly in new platforms, equipment and capabilities.
The war in Ukraine has taught us a lot about our own strengths and vulnerabilities, as a country, a partner and an ally in our global security network. These lessons informed our updated defence policy, which places a new emphasis and sharp focus on defending our continent and Canada's Arctic, investing in advanced capabilities to better detect, deter and defeat threats, and building up our defence industrial base.
We must demonstrate to our allies that we remain a reliable and valuable partner. At the NATO summit in July, we announced that we will reach NATO's 2% target by 2032.
We're equipping our military with 21st-century capabilities that are going to allow us to operate across all domains, in all environments and alongside our allies and partners, starting with new ships, submarines, vehicles and planes that contribute to our Canadian Armed Forces' operational readiness. We are also modernizing command and control systems.
In order to do this effectively, we know that we must usher in new capabilities in a new era, and we need to find a new approach to modernizing defence procurement. We're actively reviewing our procurement processes to find inefficiencies and build better relationships with industry.
I would also note that we are making the largest investment in our navy and our air force since the Second World War. In “Our North, Strong and Free”, we've outlined how we'll invest in industry to create new production lines and secure supply chains that will allow us to increase production at home. This is going to be good for our military, but it will also be good for our workers, our industry and our economy.
Protecting national security is job one, and I want to acknowledge that we have a great deal to do. Since I got this job, I have tried to make it very clear that Canada must do more, and Canada will do more. We have to live up to our obligations to defend our country and to our international partners.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll happily submit to any questions members may have.
:
I agree that we're seeing activities from Russia. One of the things we see certainly is that they're challenging us militarily. They're also challenging us significantly in the cyber environment, and I think you highlighted in your question the importance of misinformation and disinformation. They are making efforts to destabilize our society, our institutions, important institutions like our political system, by engaging in polarizing rhetoric, misinformation, fearmongering, threats and coercion against some of our citizens. All of those behaviours are a non-kinetic form of warfare. It's asymmetrical, but it's something that Canada needs to respond to because they are direct threats.
For the Canadian Armed Forces and through our people at CSE, we are very much engaged in countering those threats and making sure that the connection between national defence and national security.... I think, it's very clear, and I think we all have a responsibility. It's going to require advances in our approaches and closer work with our allies.
I would share with you as well one thing from my experience—Russia's invasion of Ukraine, as an example. I think their intention was to destabilize the western alliance and to cause rifts between us. It's had exactly the opposite effect. In my experience, all of the nations of NATO, including Canada and the United States, have become far stronger, far more united, far more resolute in our purpose of making sure that we have the capabilities to counter the threat that Russia and China represent, and others too, by the way. We are also seeing that type of hostile activity from state actors such as Iran and North Korea. There is, unfortunately, a growing list of people who are clearly demonstrating that they are willing to engage in a number of very aggressive, assertive and negative behaviours towards our society, our culture, our institutions and our country.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Minister, thank you for making yourself available to us today.
I'd like to come back to the letter I sent you on June 28, in which I requested an inquiry into the actions of your predecessor, .
We know that it was said in the news that the minister had mentioned that he had not given the order to prioritize the Sikh community, but had simply passed on information to the chain of command.
In a letter dated June 28, we asked you to investigate. We received a reply to this letter from the Department of National Defence on July 23, a month later, in which we were told that our letter was being reviewed.
Has an investigation been launched on your side, or have steps been taken to shed light on the matter?
:
Thank you very much for what I think is one of our most important questions because, as I said in my opening remarks, people are our most important asset. As I've already commented, I've expressed very sincere concern that losing more people than we're able to take on is not a successful strategy, and we have to turn it around.
I am very pleased to report to this committee that there has been some outstanding work done by the Canadian Armed Forces, and the Department of National Defence to significantly improve our onboarding and our recruiting processes, and I think they have demonstrated real openness and commitment to doing what is necessary to resolve our hiring and personnel issues.
There's some very important work that's going on with the new CDS. I think it's more appropriate for her to perhaps come before this committee and outline the nature of her plan, but as I have been briefed, it includes, I think, significant new measures. It includes the introduction—as was recommended not only in our new defence policy but also in Justice Arbour's recommendations—of the establishment of a probationary period.
That's going to allow them to bring people in much more quickly to begin their basic training and, then, to complete some of the important security background checks, for example, before the person is in a sensitive position, but it enables us to get started and to really expedite the processes.
We're also seeing a very comprehensive re-evaluation that's going on, not in any way to compromise the very high standards that we require for everybody joining the Canadian Armed Forces and for their combat readiness, but at the same time, it's going to enable us to address, I think, more appropriately some of the impediments that we have identified in getting people in the door.
There has also been some really good work done because, as I know this committee has been advised, permanent residents were given the opportunity about two years ago to make applications to join the Canadian Armed Forces, and about 20,000 of them immediately signed up. We saw that the intake was impeded by some of the challenges in doing over again the security background checks for those individuals. There has been some really good work done among the Canadian Armed Forces, IRCC and others to expedite those processes, and I'm very encouraged by the path that we are currently on.
I believe that we have turned a very significant corner and that we will see an increase in recruitment, but we're not done. There are a number of really important initiatives I think we can undertake. I think the opportunity we can give Canadians to serve their country in the Canadian Armed Forces and to engage in real national public service for this country is a great opportunity for those young people, and it's a great opportunity for the Canadian Armed Forces, so we are committed.
One of the things that I have asked the CDS to look at is that there are a number of bottlenecks in those recruitment processes. Our capacity to put people through basic training is one of those bottlenecks, so we are looking at how we address that and how we increase that capacity.
We also have a very extensive and comprehensive review of our military colleges going on at Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and at RMC in Kingston. Those, I hope, are going to give us a number of recommendations that will enable us to make those more efficient and effective in getting the cadre of leadership that we're also going to require for the Canadian Armed Forces.
:
You and I have had an opportunity to speak about some of these issues before. As I've acknowledged to you, a great deal of work has been done, but more needs to be done. I appreciate your acknowledging that, I think, we've made some real progress on the SMSRC and on the work that has been done in support of victims following this report. We are coming up, in February 2025, on the fifth anniversary, and there is a commitment there to that work.
I can share with you that we're currently pursuing a court appointment for the external review team lead. We think that's an important initiative. I think we've also been able to demonstrate our commitment to greater judicial independence of military justice actors by removing some of these conditions under Bill so that these matters are dealt with in the civilian system, rather than people having to go to their boss.
I also very strongly believe that the decision to pursue an investigation and a criminal prosecution is entirely the agency of the victim. At the same time, we have a responsibility to provide them with victim support services, no matter what is taking place.
We've also talked about some of the important work that's gone on with Justice Arbour's recommendations, with our implementation plan and with the appointment of the external monitor, who, by the way, every two months, produces a very comprehensive report, which I hope that you all have access to, that explains the progress of the work and the implementation of Justice Arbour's recommendations. We're moving on a number of other recommendations, including the Fish report. All of that needs to be coordinated and brought together in a meaningful way. Restoring trust for all of those people who have experienced this is our priority.
I'm very happy to continue, if you would like.
:
Mr. Minister, you talked about learning a lot from the war in Ukraine.
Certainly, one of the things we've learned is this: There seems to be a worldwide shortage of ammunition. The Ukrainians don't have enough 155-millimetre shells. Madame Normandin asked about the production of more shells and your response was, “well, there is a company that is going to provide them, but they doubled the price. Then, when we agreed to that, they doubled the price again.”
I'm not sure how many companies there are making 155-millimetre shells, but it seems to me from your response that the problem is that we don't have enough companies making that form of ammunition, or, from a previous question, nine-millimetre ammunition. There seems to be, perhaps, a market failure. In normal times, there isn't enough demand for 155-millimetre shells, but now there is. It would be nice to think that, perhaps, in six months or a year, the war in Ukraine will be over and there may not be a demand. However, this would seem to me to be the kind of market failure that requires government intervention to support companies starting to produce 155-millimetre shells and other forms of ammunition.
Has there been any effort on the part of the government to give incentives to companies to start the production of ammunition?
:
Yes, thank you very much, Marcus. This is a good opportunity for me to clarify my remarks.
I went to the industry, when I first came into this job, and told them they needed to increase their production, particularly around munitions, but not just munitions. We need a significant increase in military production right across this country. Our industries are very strong and capable, but for a very long time, there was a significant underinvestment. We went to them, and they said they needed to open new production lines. They needed new supply chains. This would require two things: an investment from government, and the security and certainty that long-term contracts provide.
That's one of the reasons why we brought forward, in our new defence policy update, significant new investment in both industry and those long-term contracts. What you have suggested is exactly what we're proposing to do. At the same time, this requires that we work very carefully with industry. They have told us that, even if we make investments in their production capability.... You know, we already buy ammunition from them. We buy a lot of ammunition from them, but we need more. We're going to invest in those industries and offer them long-term contracts, but we also have an interim problem, because the Canadian Armed Forces need ammunition now, as do our Ukrainian friends.
That's one of the reasons why we entered into an agreement with the Czech Republic. We have been buying 155-millimetre ammunition for Ukraine through that Czech initiative because they're able to buy it on the market. We're funnelling money through those coalitions—as part of our NATO partnership—in order to acquire those munitions.
I am also prepared to purchase those on the international market for the Canadian Armed Forces, until the Canadian industry is capable of meeting our requirements. A number of lines of effort need to happen concurrently. We need to invest in Canadian industry. We need to work on those contracts with them. We need to build up their production. At the same time, we need the immediacy of responding, first of all, to the needs of the Canadian Armed Forces. That's my first priority. A very close second priority is making sure we're able to provide Ukraine with what it needs.
I'll come to you in a minute. I just want to bring forward and put on notice a motion.
The reason I am doing this is that there were some very reckless comments made by the on Monday night:
“I will vote against anti-Israel resolutions at the United Nations,” he said. “I will back Israel's right to defend itself, which includes retaliating against those that attack Israel. Israel must be able to prevent Iran from using nuclear weapons, if necessary, that means proactively striking Iranian nuclear sites and oil installations to defund the terrorist regime.”
For that reason, Mr. Chair, I would like to put on notice a motion. It reads as follows:
Given the reckless and dangerous comments of the Leader of the Opposition, Pierre Poilievre, calling for potential strikes against Iranian nuclear facilities, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) the committee undertake a study of the law of armed conflict and Canada’s obligations under international law.
[Translation]
Thank you very much.
[English]
I'm sorry about that. Thank you very much.
I want to say thanks to all of you for coming in front of our committee.
Ms. Hadwen, the minister did share and make reference to the possibility that you could continue expanding on some of the most recent investments made and the importance of your department, but also in the context of the international risk regarding cybersecurity, cyber-attacks, AI and everything. I know that there has been some great news, and I would really like you to expand on that for us this morning.
[Translation]
Thank you very much for the question. I'll answer first, but I'll let my colleagues give me a hand afterwards.
[English]
It's a very complex question, and one we have broken down into many different parts within the department, because restraints on recruitment revolve around many different things that have been touched upon already in this committee.
Questions around how slow we are to move people through the onboarding system, the security clearances required, the medical processes required, the training facilities we have, the barracks that are available or not, and the equipment.... Each of these things is a separate challenge we are dealing with individually so that, as a whole, we will be able to—as the chief said recently—not only hire 6,400 a year but also hopefully more than that.
In terms of retention, that goes hand in hand with offering adequate housing and making sure our CAF members are properly paid—which is the case, as they received salary increases last year. Of course, it's also about ensuring they have careers that are interesting and fulfilling. I think we can see that part easily. These are jobs people want to do.
We have no problem with the number of folks approaching us. We have a greater problem moving them through quickly enough that we manage to retain them.
:
Housing has been a challenge for us for decades, and we can only spend the money that we have, obviously. Though there is a lot of money coming up that you have seen and mentioned, and the number of houses that we are expected to build, it doesn't actually show what we currently spend, of course. We already have tens of millions of dollars annually in building and procuring new housing, as well as renovating the housing we already have.
In addition to that, though, and to the industrial strategy point, we are looking to work with the housing development industry very differently, because we know that we need housing in very different ways. We have land, obviously, and we have space available that we know the municipalities, provinces and territories want us to use for housing.
We are shortly going out with information to developers around the country—and very specifically in certain spots—and asking for information on levels of interest in building housing that could serve not only CAF members but also the local population and, indeed, where possible, focus on indigenous communities. What we would like as well is to be able to include in those new buildings day care—child care centres—and to make sure they are accessible to all, thereby hitting multiple stones at the same time.
There's a lot more to follow on that. It's really a good-news story, I hope, in working with the housing developers too.
I'm going to start with one of the questions I asked the minister when he was here.
In his parting remarks to CAF members, General Eyre urged members to “Inoculate yourself and those around you against the toxic disinformation in our society”, and that “We must stop it from seeping into our ranks.”
My question to the minister was around Russia and China's efforts, but you also struggle with what your members read and see in the news. There's a crazy theory being pushed right now by an alt-right American representative talking about the government controlling the weather. Here, during the COVID situation, we had the Ivermectin party of Canada pushing misinformation in the House and undermining the efforts of public health officials as they related to combatting the virus, and to the efficacy of the vaccine. The misinformation isn't just coming from Russia and China. It's all around us.
I'll go back to that inoculation reference from General Eyre. I'm hesitant to use the word, because it almost sounds like a conspiracy theory in the making.
Can you talk about your efforts, internally, as they relate to dealing with your members and the misinformation they might hear from our enemies abroad and domestically—even within this House?
:
Thank you for your question.
With regard to CAFCYBERCOM and everything to do with cyber operations, in its annual report, the Communications Security Establishment mentions that we have already made progress in implementing several operations, but without giving further details. Rest assured that, since Bill was passed and provided us with the requisite powers, we have been exercising them.
You suggested that the newly announced CAFCYBERCOM was just a gathering of people taken from elsewhere, but I assure you that it's a very important gathering, because it puts us on a more equal footing with our allies.
I'll let my colleague tell you more about it. I can assure you that, from a Communications Security Establishment perspective, we are a very well-recognized ally of our Five Eyes partners for our capabilities in this area.
:
I'll start, and then others can add.
We were really pleased to have been part of the Indo-Pacific strategy that was led by our colleagues at Global Affairs Canada and to be able to access some new funding that allows us to really ramp up our operations and exercises across the Indo-Pacific. This has meant, in practical terms, much more interaction and direct collaboration at all levels, both on the civilian side, including the CSE, as well as on the military side. In fact, our senior researchers and developers have just come back from discussions in Australia, where we were working very explicitly on issues that we all face right now, including, for instance, underwater drones and other technologies that are being developed. AI would be another one of those. Working together, we can make a difference.
You will also have seen much mention of our sailing plans in Indo-Pacific; our work in Operation Neon, recognizing what is happening in North Korea and South Korea; and, of course, regular interactions with all of our other major trading partners there. The minister was recently in South Korea and in Japan as well. The is in ASEAN right now, in Vientiane, Laos.
Perhaps some more specifics on the military side....
:
Actually, what we would really welcome is a conversation with you, perhaps over in one of our buildings. We have some big plans we need discuss, including the defence industrial strategy, which we need to draft. We would really appreciate having input from all across the country, but particularly from this committee.
We're looking forward to your reporting on housing coming up.
We think we have lots of good ideas, but there are always more to come. In fact, the interactions directly with those affected are going to make the difference in what the outcome is and how successful we are on our Pathfinder initiative.
I know we didn't really talk about procurement reform today, but we're always happy to discuss it. This is very much on our minds. There are many things we can control internally so that we change our own processes to speed up. It does mean making choices that are difficult. In some cases, if we're doing more of what I would call “directed procurement”, it means somebody doesn't get it. There is always a trade-off, but that does manage to then speed up the actual outcome at the end.
We've seen some instances of that being very successful recently. Actually, I would point to the RFI on submarines, which we're hoping will be a demonstration of how we can actually do procurement differently, with the success at the end being the capabilities we need in a timely manner.