:
Welcome to meeting number 104 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.
[Translation]
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motions adopted by the committee on March 9, 2023, and December 5, 2023, the committee is resuming its study on the recognition of Persian Gulf veterans and wartime service.
[English]
I would like to welcome Ms. Jean Yip to our committee. She's replacing .
[Translation]
Before we begin, I would ask everyone participating in the meeting, whether in person or by video conference, to avoid bringing their earpieces close to their microphones when speaking, because this creates feedback that can cause hearing injury, especially to interpreters. So I ask everyone to be careful.
Today's meeting is being held in hybrid format, in accordance with the Standing Orders.
I remind you that all comments from participants must be addressed to the chair.
[English]
Now I would like to welcome our witness today.
We have, as an individual, Ms. Nina Charlene Usherwood. She's going to be with us by video conference.
Before I give you the floor for five minutes for your opening statement, I have to go to Mr. Blake Richards.
:
Mr. Chair, I'm just looking for some clarity on what our meetings are going to look like.
We agreed to four meetings on this study, and we obviously have a report we've been working on. However, I noticed that, with both this meeting and the previous one, we've done one hour with a witness and one hour of committee business. I'm wondering if these are being considered full meetings.
I guess I'm trying to get some sense as to what's left in the study we're working on. Is this meeting and the previous one being considered as meetings so that we, therefore, only have two left? How is this being structured?
I'm looking for some clarity on that.
:
Good day, Mr. Chairman.
I want to thank the committee for inviting me and listening to my experience as a Gulf War veteran. I was deployed to Doha, Qatar, with the Desert Cats from November 30, 1990, until March 3, 1991.
When the government decided to join President Bush's coalition of the willing, the CAF had until recently been focused on the Cold War and the predicted Soviet invasion of western Europe. Our training, our exercises, our equipment and even our uniforms were geared for operations in Germany. While the navy sailed the world, the air force's jets were only deployed to Europe.
From the moment I was notified of my pending deployment to the Middle East, it was clear that the CAF was improvising. The CAF never considered that it would be required to deploy the air force anywhere except Europe, and certainly not to operate in the Middle East without desert uniforms or the necessary equipment or facilities.
Before the first Canadian was deployed to the Middle East until the last Canadian came home, the CAF improvised its participation in Desert Storm. This improvisation was reflected in the treatment of the Gulf War veterans before, during and after the war. I experienced this improvisation from when I was selected to deploy until I returned to Germany following the war.
Here are some examples of improvisation.
Jungle boots were the only tropical boots available for the Canadians, so we wore jungle boots in the desert. We had no wide-brimmed hats, so we purchased Tilley hats for use in the desert sun.
As an experienced technician, I was asked to develop the CF-18 maintenance program for months of deployment without the facilities we would have had available in Canada and Europe. The CF-18, like the navy's ships and helicopters, was rapidly modified for Desert Storm. While in Doha, I had to improvise repair solutions for malfunctioning CF-18s because of the lack of supporting equipment and facilities.
I can give other examples if you wish.
On my return from the Middle East in March 1991, a bus came to the airport to drive me back to Baden, Germany. Arriving in Baden, no one greeted me, except for a medic to secure my three atropine injectors. At 2 a.m., I was left outside a dark building with only my barrack box and duffel bag. I insisted that the medic reopen the building so that I could call one of the few friends who had a phone. Most Canadians at the time had no phones, as German landlines were very expensive.
This improvisation was also evident when the Gulf and Kuwait Medal was given to other veterans. Because my unit was aware that I had served in the gulf and was entitled to the medal, I was told twice to report to receive the medal from an officer. Each time, I was told I was not on the list of recipients. When I challenged my orderly room to explain why I had not received the medal, I was told I was not entitled to it. Eventually, I would receive my medal in a plain, brown envelope.
Gulf War veterans and I received the Kuwait Liberation Medal issued by Saudi Arabia in a ceremony in front of spectators and our peers. I received the Kuwait Liberation Medal issued by Kuwait from the Kuwaiti ambassador in front of spectators and peers.
Neither the CAF nor Canada ever thanked me for my service during Desert Storm. My service record for Desert Storm only reads “009803 MANNING LIST CATGME”. It does not mention the Middle East or a conflict.
Thank you for listening to my Gulf War experience. I'd be happy to answer any questions.
First of all, thank you for being here today. Secondly, and most importantly, thank you for your service to our country.
You had a brief opportunity of five minutes for an opening statement. You mentioned the experience you had with regard to being delayed, at the very least, in receiving your due recognition in terms of a medal for your service in that particular conflict. I think this is something that we hear frequently, in various ways, from a number of veterans. I know that the Afghan veterans, for example, right now feel like the recognition of their service is being delayed, because they're still waiting for a monument to be built, which they've expected for a decade now, essentially.
I wanted to start with that. I have a couple of questions for you, but I want to start with that because I know you've been involved with the organization that's in place to assist with the monument for LGBTQ+ veterans. I believe so, anyway. I believe you're involved with that in some way, are you not?
Sergeant Usherwood, I want to welcome you back to the committee. I know members of this committee very much appreciate the testimony you've provided over the years on a wide range of topics. It's worth mentioning, in particular, our most recent study, which produced the report “Invisible No More”.
On the topic of our most recent report—before I get to my questions—I'd like to ask whether you've had a chance to review the “Invisible No More” report and could share with our committee any initial observations.
What are your thoughts on the recommendations, and what do you hope to see come out of that work?
:
I would say that all people in the military, within a few years, become well aware of the difference between a war veteran and a special duty area veteran, and what the implications of that are.
We are all in the military. I don't know. Maybe if you went far enough back among veterans.... Any veteran, other than maybe World War II or Korea veterans, would be aware of that, because they were all engaged in operations and sometimes fought wars, saw their peers killed beside them and were not treated like a veteran who had been in a war.
For example, in Cyprus in 1974, with the invasion by the Turkish army, the airborne regiment at the time fought to maintain their position on the United Nations lines. Some of them died. I think everybody in the military is very aware of that.
:
On the night of February 25 and into February 26, Saddam fired all his remaining Scud missiles. At the time the alert went off, and I had heard this many times. I was up to my bare hands—because we didn't have proper protective equipment at the time—in aircraft fuel, fixing a CF-18. For a moment, I was thinking, “Should I react? Should I just continue this job, which will allow me to put the panel back on and stop the fuel from leaking on the ground, or should I run for cover?”
In the end, I decided to run for cover. There was a nearby aircraft shelter that was hardened, so I did. Meanwhile, the fuel all leaked out. However, the Scud missile actually missed the location I was at. Some of us—not me but some of the others—went to look at the crater that it blasted. As best as I can remember, it was 20 feet across and about 15 feet deep. Even if I had been in the shelter and it had been hit, I still would have been gone. That same night, there was also another Scud launched at a warehouse that the Americans were using for a barracks. There were 28 people killed and over 100 injured.
Yes, I was exposed to the same danger as anybody else.
Thank you for being here, Nina. I appreciate it very much.
I also want to take another opportunity to thank you for your service and for your generosity with this committee, because you do come visit us and you educate us every single time. Thank you for that.
My first question to you is sort of two questions wrapped up in one. I would really like it if you could share with the committee how being in the Gulf War affected your mental and physical health. The second part that I want to tie in with that is.... You said in your introduction to us that Canada never thanked you for your service during that time.
Can you talk about how it impacted you mentally and physically, and what the ramifications of that are in the context of Canada not appreciating or acknowledging that service?
:
Thank you for your question.
After the war was over and I returned to Germany, I was unaware of any impact on my health at the time. Other than my anger, due to the treatment by the CAF towards the end of combat, I did not think my time in the gulf had any impact on me. I knew what Gulf War syndrome was, and I didn't think I had it. I would have said that for years and years.
However, recently, I've been diagnosed with inappropriate sinus tachycardia. When I'm relaxed, watching TV or something like that, just watching a movie, my heart rate will suddenly elevate. It will go up by 30 beats per minute, and it'll stay there. It just lingers. It has even lingered through a night of sleeping. I don't know what has caused that, and so far they haven't figured it out. I get to go do another test tomorrow. Maybe they can figure it out then.
I am conscious that, during the Gulf War, I took pyridostigmine bromide tablets every eight hours a day for almost a month. The reason we were told we were taking it was that, if we were exposed to sarin gas, we had the atropine injectors, which would help our hearts keep beating, but if we weren't exposed to enough, we were told that the atropine could kill us and that we needed the pyridostigmine bromide, the PB tablets, to help keep us from being killed by the atropine.
Additionally, we took antibiotics every 12 hours for weeks. If you do the math, that means every four hours we were supposed to take a pill.
Another thing that happened was that there was an anthrax vaccine, and it's been around for years, against the bacteria, but they decided that we would get it. The way they decided who would receive the vaccine was that they looked at the anticipated rotation date back to Germany or to Canada. Because the vaccine took three parts, if your anticipated return to Germany or to Canada was going to be before you could get the third part, you weren't going to get it. Therefore, if you were like me—scheduled to get it four days after you were scheduled to be rotated back—then they started you on this. If you were scheduled to go a week before I was scheduled to go back, you wouldn't get it.
Also, we were exposed to the oil fires. When he lit the oil fields on fire, we did not experience bright sunlight again in the gulf—period. The first time I really saw the sun again was when I was flying back to Germany and we lifted up.... I don't know if it was 10,000 or 20,000 feet. We suddenly broke into brilliant sunlight. It was not a cloudy day. There were no clouds in the sky. As I looked out the window of the Hercules aircraft, I could see the black ring of smoke that was entirely around, horizon to horizon. It was absolutely black. I've been in poor weather conditions before, even some dust conditions in the south, but it was nothing like this. It was just pure black, like the black of your glasses frame.
I have skin cancer, and VAC said, “Okay, you were in a special duty area, so we will accept that.” It took them a while to accept that.
I talked about feeling that Scud missile attack towards us. The first night that it started—the war—was January 16 into January 17. We had trained for this kind of potential nuclear, biological, chemical warfare in Europe. Thinking back now, what we did there was a joke, but we did....
I had my NBCW suit with me. We knew the war was starting. Even prior to the war, we were told we had to take it downtown, when we were allowed to go downtown. I don't know how all the locals would have liked it if we had been able to hear an alarm and if we had suddenly gotten dressed in this and none of the others had it.
I thought that was a waste of time, but we had it, and on the first night, the alarm went off five times. Each time, I got into my full gear, sitting with my gas mask. I lay on my bed in the bunk, because I was off shift at the time, and I looked at the thin, tin roof of the old workers' camp in CD1. I thought, “Well, I'm definitely safe against a Scud missile with that thin tin above me.”
As it turned out, none of them came toward us. They were all heading toward Saudi Arabia or Israel, but we had no way of knowing that. It was a very tense night.
:
On February 23, 2022, I went to bed knowing that Putin was going to launch his missiles and his attack on Ukraine. It was clear from the news. I'm someone who follows the news, so it was very clear to me.
I woke up in the middle of the night. First of all, I was dreaming I was back in Doha, looking at the roof. I woke up in the middle of the night and I was sure I was in Doha, because I knew what the Ukrainians were going through. I know what that feeling of fear is. I know what it is to lie there and know that you really have no protection whatsoever.
If a Scud had hit us directly, it wouldn't have even mattered what shelter there was. We would have been dead. However, the one Scud he fired at us.... He fired 88 Scuds, and the one he fired was not....
I'm sorry.
I believe you're up in the next round, Cathay.
First of all, I want to thank you, Ms. Usherwood, for being here today, and for your service as well.
This is our second hour, but our first day of the study as a whole. It's been really interesting to hear, like you said earlier, about.... We're studying more time and special service, and the difference. We had a special guest last week, Kevin Sampson, who was here as well, and I found it quite interesting to hear what he had to say in his testimony. I think you were bang on when you said the fact is that the only people who truly understand it are those who are part of the CAF. The rest of society is really not up to speed on this.
What I've really heard over the two meetings thus far is that the main reason they weren't recognized—why it was believed they weren't—is the fact that it would be a huge financial issue for the government. That's probably the number one response for “why”. Now, listening to you and your testimony, you were saying it had something to do with the government's perception of the difference between peacekeeping and war fighters. You, during your tour, were a war fighter.
I don't know if you could speak a little more to that part of it and the financial aspect.
:
I call it the myth of peacekeeping. In Canada, we say that Lester Pearson invented peacekeeping. Well, I don't know how that would go with Brigadier-General Angle, who died in 1948, 1949 or 1950—I've forgotten. He died five or six years before the Suez crisis on a UN peacekeeping mission, a mission that still exists to this day.
As I said, Canada has this myth about what really goes on with peacekeeping. That's what I see. When we have Canadians who die in peacekeeping missions, we generally don't acknowledge them, because that would suggest that it's not just, “Oh, we go there with our blue berets and our white vehicles and we stand and hold our hands up.” No—Canadians die.
Last I remember, 118 have died on peacekeeping missions. To do that, to stand in front of somebody.... There is the Gandhi example. It stands there and just accepts what someone else is doing, but that's not going to get sides like, for example, what's going on in Ukraine or, for that matter, what's going on in the Gaza or Lebanon.... They're not going to stop. By the way, there are peacekeepers right now in the area between Israel and Lebanon and the Golan Heights and all that. They're still there. That's another peacekeeping mission that predates the Suez Canal by eight years—in 1948, I think it was—and in 1948 the first person died there. It was a French army soldier.
No, the Canadian government doesn't like to think of Canadian military personnel dying. I think that Canadians are actually better than that. They don't blame us for being where the government sends us. They understand that. The policy decisions that the government makes as to where they deploy us, they can be blamed for that, but not for the personal deaths of Canadians. All of us who have ever died volunteered. There hasn't been anybody in combat—Canadian—who wasn't a volunteer, except I'm not sure about World War I. The conscripts never went to Europe in World War II.
Another thing I heard that made me a bit upset, I guess, was the part where you didn't receive your medal originally, but then you did and you were told you weren't entitled to it. It really didn't feel like you had your thanks for service. Is that felt by quite a few people during that period of time, that they were...or that they just didn't get the thanks they deserved? That's number one.
Number two, as you know, we're having a tough time recruiting. Do you think that some of the ways we dealt with our past are maybe perhaps catching up to the present?
I really want to thank you as well, Sergeant Usherwood, for being here with us today and sharing your experiences. Also, thank you for your service. I'm sorry that you haven't heard that enough.
I think my colleague Rachel Blaney took the questions that I had originally prepared for you. In your opening statement, you talked about all these indignities that I think you've suffered. You talked about the medal. You just brought it up again now. You talked about having to scratch and scramble for proper gear when you were in the desert and having to quickly modify CF-18s on the fly.
What would you say is the overall impact of these indignities? Is it something that you think is fairly common among your peers or do you think you were singled out?
I want to come back, Nina, to the medals.
When I heard your presentation, you talked about the Gulf War medal that you ended up receiving in a brown envelope. You also received the Kuwait Liberation Medal. In those processes.... First of all, regarding the Gulf War medal, did you find out what the confusion was at any point? Did they clarify what the back-and-forth was and why they gave it to you in a brown envelope?
Secondly, we heard testimony that, sometimes, you're given medals you can't wear over your heart. You have to put it on the other side. With the Kuwait Liberation Medal, is that the case?
Thank you, Sergeant Usherwood, for your service, but also for how well you have explained things for us today. It's very much appreciated.
I just have one thing to ask, because I have limited time. The Gulf War association put forward a petition to the House of Commons in March 2023, calling upon the Government of Canada to reclassify the Persian Gulf War, the liberation of Kuwait, from a special duty area to wartime service within all Canadian policies. The main argument was that, of course, if they designated that as a wartime service and extended it to Persian Gulf veterans, they would need to extend it to all post-Korea veterans who were deployed.
With petitions, ministers are always required to respond. This is the response tabled by the . I'd like you to pretend I'm the Minister of National Defence. I'm going to read the response, and I would like to get your reaction to that, to me, as though I was the minister. I would like to know, how do you feel about that?
The response tabled by the stated:
Applying these categories is not meant to signal greater or lesser respect for the service of members and Veterans, nor are such categories indicative of a lesser degree of risk on the part of those deployed.
There you have it. There's nothing to see here.
Sergeant, thank you for your service to your country, and a special thanks for being here yet again to help this committee navigate some of these challenging conversations.
I want to touch base on something you were just talking about with Monsieur Desilets. It got me thinking about my time as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence. I really appreciated your comment that you don't need to be deployed to serve your country and to die for your country. I was sitting here reflecting on the two soldiers we lost at Petawawa recently, in the crash there. I had the opportunity to visit the crash site. The base commander took me through the scenario and some of the stories that were told of how that rescue operation unfolded. It was truly amazing to hear some of the specific accounts of that horrible accident. I think we have to keep in mind that we're talking about service when we're talking about voluntary service, and the importance of recognizing all who serve.
In our ridings, we all have different organizations that recognize veterans or help keep communities connected to military service. Obviously, Legions come to mind. One thing was really upsetting to me. I have a number of Legions in my riding. At one of them, I had an eye-opening experience early on, as a new member of Parliament. When I asked if any veterans from Afghanistan or the Persian Gulf War were members of our local Legion, one of the members of the Legion said, well, they're not veterans. That has always stuck with me. Thankfully that particular individual is no longer involved in that Legion. I'm very proud of my Legions and the leadership we have, but that was a really interesting take from somebody who you'd think was there to advocate for and to thank those who served, all those who served, with the Canadian Armed Forces.
I'm wondering what your opinion is on the classification differences. Have you experienced that? Have you heard from people who have experienced that different level of service because they served in one conflict versus another?