:
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 126 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.
As always, I want to start by recognizing that we are gathered on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people and to express gratitude that we're able to do the important work of this committee on lands that they've stewarded since time immemorial.
Pursuant to order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, September 16, the committee is commencing its study of the priorities of the ministers of Indigenous Services Canada and Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada for the return of Parliament and their mandate.
I would like to welcome our witnesses today: the Honourable Gary Anandasangaree, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations; the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Indigenous Services; and the Honourable Dan Vandal, Minister of Northern Affairs. They're going to be supported today by, from the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, Valerie Gideon, deputy minister, and Georgina Lloyd, assistant deputy minister of northern affairs; and from the Department of Indigenous Services, Gina Wilson, deputy minister.
Ministers, welcome. You will have five minutes each for your opening statements, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.
We'll start with the Honourable Gary Anandasangaree, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.
The floor is yours.
:
Kwe kwe.
Ulaakut.
Tansi. Hello.
Bonjour.
Before I get started, I want to acknowledge that we're meeting on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.
[Translation]
I'm pleased to be back before the committee today to outline my priorities as Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.
[English]
Last week, I joined you to talk about Bill , a bill that will recognize the Council of the Haida Nation as the government of the Haida people, something 50 years in the making. I want to thank you all for swiftly passing this through committee and for it being referred to the House.
As the minister responsible for this file, it requires constant reflection on the journey of reconciliation, both on how far we have come and how much more there is to do. Make no mistake—there is a lot of work to be done ahead.
Perhaps a fitting place to begin is with the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.
[Translation]
This day was established in direct response to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's Call to Action number 80.
[English]
This year, in Millbrook First Nation, I walked in honour of Nora Bernard and heard from her daughter Natalie—both courageous voices of survivors. In Ottawa, I attended the “Remembering the Children” event, watched Sugarcane and re-raised the survivors' flag on Parliament Hill. We were reminded of the lasting scars left by residential schools, impacting survivors, families and communities, an impact that continues to echo today in every conversation we have about reconciliation.
When I talk about my priorities, I'm clear. Above all, they are listening to indigenous people, honouring their stories and moving forward in true partnership that reflects their lived experiences. With Bill 's passage, we fulfilled call to action 53, and the national council for reconciliation is taking shape. We also look forward to special interlocutor Kim Murray's report tomorrow. This is true partnership. It's not perfect, but we are committed to listening, adopting and doing what's right.
The national crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women, girls, two-spirit and gender-diverse people must end. We made progress with partners on about three-quarters of the calls for justice so far—as examples, funding 47 emergency shelters and transitional housing projects, delivering reliable Internet to over 27,000 indigenous households and working with the Government of Manitoba to advance a red dress alert pilot—but we need to accelerate this progress.
As we look to the future, we must ensure that the next generation has the resources and opportunities to thrive. On Friday, I announced $20 million in annual funding for the Kinoomaadziwin Education Body to support their infrastructure and governance needs. Chief Judy Desmoulin of Long Lake #58 First Nation talked about the increase of graduates, from eight to 90, in just six years alone. This is incredible. By investing in first nations-led education, we're investing in the future of reconciliation.
It all comes down to self-determination and securing a future in which the rights of indigenous peoples are respected and they have control over their lands, their waterways, their governance and their children, as laid out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
Advancing self-government agreements and modern treaties is another way we're supporting indigenous peoples' inherent rights and championing self-determination. This summer, I was honoured to be initialling, with the Province of British Columbia, modern treaties with the Kitselas, Kitsumkalum and K'ómoks.
Through Bill , we propose to establish a commissioner for modern treaty implementation. This legislation renders the status quo impossible. The commissioner will hold our government and all successive governments to account for their promises. This is a fundamental change. I hope every member of this committee ensures that this bill will be a priority in the chamber when debate opens. We must not let this, or any other piece of legislation, be delayed by the tactics of partisanship.
While my department has made progress, I share the frustration with the pace. Our work is far from done. Recent deaths of first nations people by law enforcement show the urgent need to act against systemic racism in our justice system. We must seek truth, ensure accountability and build trust.
As someone who has spent a lifetime advocating for human rights and justice, I understand that our journey towards reconciliation is an intergenerational effort and requires constant and collective efforts. Our government, my department and I remain committed to working alongside indigenous partners to rebuild trust, make real changes and ensure that the rights and voices of indigenous peoples are respected at every step of the way.
I look forward to your questions and comments. Meegwetch. Qujannamiik. Marsi. Thank you. Merci.
:
Thank you.
Tansi.
Ulaakut. Hello.
Bonjour.
Thank you for inviting me here today.
I look forward to providing further insight into my and our government's priorities regarding the north. My office and the department are always working alongside Arctic and northern partners to address local priorities and help them in having the resources to respond to their communities' needs. Our work is guided by the Arctic and northern policy framework.
I don't need to tell anyone here that one of the most significant challenges in the north is food security. On that, we're working with northern and indigenous partners, through the nutrition north Canada program, to make healthy food more affordable in the north. By subsidizing food and everyday items such as diapers, soap and personal hygiene products, the program has helped lower the costs of some items by as much as 76%. For example, in July this year, in Sachs Harbour in NWT, the cost of a five-kilogram bag of flour would be more than $42 without the subsidy. It's now $4.89, a huge difference for families and the community. There are examples like this in all 124 communities that fall under nutrition north.
We are also responding to food security in the north by adding $23 million to the subsidy itself and over $100 million in two other important programs: the harvesters support grant, which supports traditional hunting, harvesting and food sharing; and the community food programs fund, which supports community food-sharing initiatives. Since 2020 there were more than 15,000 harvests, with over 700 new food-sharing initiatives and 410 hunts and harvests taking place.
Another priority is narrowing the northern housing and infrastructure gap. Our government is working collaboratively to help increase the region's housing stock, reduce overcrowding and homelessness, improve housing conditions and assist communities with their specific needs. We're doing this through investments for self-determined housing and infrastructure development. This includes, of course, $4.3 billion announced to co-develop and launch an urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy with, of course, indigenous partners. We know that self-determined, distinctions-based investments are working. As examples, since 2016, Inuit treaty organizations constructed over 650 new housing units, repaired over 469 existing units and developed land in their communities for new housing.
The north faces other significant challenges. The region is warming at four times the global average, with far-reaching consequences for people who live there, for wildlife and, of course, for the environment. We're working with indigenous and northern communities to address the effects of climate change, to help advance indigenous climate leadership and to shift to renewable sources of energy. Programs, such as the climate change preparedness in the north program, are helping to develop northern-led solutions to deal with coastal erosion, permafrost degradation and increased floods and wildfires.
All in all, food security, housing and climate change are three of the top priorities of the government that my department is addressing in the north and in the Arctic. Just a few weeks ago in Iqaluit, Premier P.J. Akeeagok and I co-hosted an Arctic and northern policy framework leadership committee meeting, where we announced a new approach to helping improve the nutrition north program. Starting this year we will be appointing a ministerial special representative to conduct an external review, and chairing a research symposium with indigenous partners to discuss key findings.
To end, Mr. Chair, there are many pressing issues facing the north and the Arctic, and that's also true for indigenous peoples across the north and the Arctic. Our government is working hard with partners to deliver results on these long-standing issues.
I look forward to your questions, and it's great to be here. Thank you very much. .
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
To all members, hello, kwe, ulaakut , tansi and bonjour. I'm so pleased to be here with you today on the territory of the Algonquin peoples to discuss my priorities as Minister of Indigenous Services.
Supporting long-term and reliable access to clean water for first nations communities is a top priority for this government. For decades, boil water advisories have persisted in first nations communities, creating a shameful reality where families are living with uncertainty over their most basic need. We've been working with partners to ensure this reality in Canada comes to an end.
Over the last eight years, we've invested in communities, and today, 83% of the long-term drinking water advisories impacting first nations that were in place in 2015 have been lifted. These investments have also prevented over 275 short-term advisories from becoming long-term ones.
This summer, I was in Star Blanket Cree Nation to celebrate with them the opening of their new water treatment plant. The chief, council and water operators were so joyful to be able to bring this most essential service to their members. It was an honour to be with this community on such an emotional day.
We do see a path to all remaining advisories being lifted, but as we continue this work, we must make sure we never find ourselves back in this place again. Bill is our response: a commitment built on partnership, engagement and recognizing the inherent rights of first nations to manage and control their own water systems.
This bill creates the tools of self-determination for first nations to protect source water and maintain drinking water and waste-water infrastructure on first nation lands. You've heard from over 60 witnesses that the status quo needs to change, and as the committee is set to begin clause-by-clause consideration very soon, I hope you will all treat this bill with the urgency that it deserves.
[Translation]
Children are the future, and ensuring that indigenous children have access to the services they need remains a shared responsibility.
[English]
All children and youth deserve a quality education. First nations, Inuit and Métis children should grow up with access to education that is aligned with their cultures and traditions without having to leave home. By working directly with communities, we have focused on building culturally mindful, healthy learning environments for indigenous students that reflect their distinct needs and priorities.
Earlier this month, I joined Piikani Nation to announce the funding for a new school facility that will serve over 600 students from kindergarten to grade 12 in their community. This $50-million investment will make sure that kids have access to high-quality education while they stay deeply connected to their culture and their homes.
[Translation]
Supporting students contributes to the growth and prosperity of communities.
[English]
When we support these kinds of projects and communities, we're supporting future generations of indigenous leaders who are proud of where they come from and who they are.
[Translation]
We also believe in self-determination and support first nations-led health organizations and projects across the country, including the June 2024 agreement in principle with the Southern Chiefs' Organization in Manitoba.
[English]
We all recognize that historical trauma and colonization have contributed to the poor mental health and substance use challenges that many indigenous community members face.
By following the lead of indigenous partners in supporting holistic approaches to wellness, as well as indigenous-led, community-based and culturally relevant interventions, we are together building safer, healthier and more resilient communities.
[Translation]
First nations living in communities should also have access to primary care and safe, welcoming facilities to receive their health services. Our government has made progress in this area.
We have invested $157.9 million in the Norway House Cree Nation Health Centre of Excellence, which opened in August 2024 and is the largest indigenous-run health centre in Manitoba.
[English]
I think the work we've done in partnership with indigenous communities since 2015 is making an important difference. We've come a long way, but we can't take our progress for granted. Members of Parliament of all political stripes can be part of lasting systemic change by moving on urgently needed legislation like bills , , and .
Together, we really can build a system where everyone has a fair chance to succeed.
I'm looking forward to your questions. Thank you. Meegwetch. Qujannamiik. Marsi. Merci.
:
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
I'll try to switch our tone a little bit here.
Ministers, it's nice to see you here. Thank you for making yourselves available for what is always an important discussion.
Before I get to my first question, Minister Vandal, I want to take this opportunity to mention your recent announcement that, after a very lengthy and successful career of serving the people of Winnipeg, Manitoba and Canada, you'll be spending some more time with your family. I've had the honour and privilege of knowing you since I was a young boy. I have tremendously benefited from your friendship, your counsel and your experience. I certainly am looking forward to having a few more minutes with you in this official capacity here today, but I did want to take the opportunity to congratulate you on an immensely meaningful career and your service to the people you and I both represent in our home province of Manitoba.
With that, Minister, there are two projects in particular under way right now in downtown Winnipeg. There's the revitalization of the Hudson's Bay building, which is a partnership we have with the Southern Chiefs' Organization. Then, of course, there's the huge redevelopment project being undertaken at Portage Place, which will see some of the $633 million in federal health transfers that have gone from the federal government to the Province of Manitoba put to use, with, in addition to that, some very meaningful outcomes for indigenous folks and Winnipeggers as a whole across our city.
Can you tell us just a little bit about these two projects and the work you have been involved in as the PrairiesCan and northern affairs minister? How do you see these types of investments in first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples in particular as being meaningful to both the social and economic success of our province?
Thank you.
:
Thank you so much for that question, MP Carr, and I thank you for your congratulations on my impending retirement from House of Commons and politics.
Yes, you were very young when I started, because in 2025 it'll be 30 years since I first represented Saint Boniface—Saint Vital as a city councillor, and since 2015, of course, I've represented it as a member of Parliament. It's been fantastic. It's all positive. I'm leaving with nothing but great memories, and I'm really.... Support for the Prime Minister and the party, of course, is front and centre in my exit.
With regard to the question, I'll start with the recent announcement. About a month ago—six weeks ago—we were both in Winnipeg to announce a $10-million investment in the redevelopment of Portage Place, which is a very big mall on Portage Avenue in the middle of downtown Winnipeg, across from the MTS centre. It represents a significant opportunity for downtown revitalization. The project is being undertaken by True North, which is the owner of the NHL Winnipeg Jets, by the Southern Chiefs' Organization and with funding from the Government of Manitoba, the Government of Canada, of course, and the City of Winnipeg.
When the project is complete, there will be a brand new health centre in downtown Winnipeg, which is funded largely by the $600-million transfer that our government made to the Province of Manitoba for the health accord, something that was a long time coming. There will be a health care centre. There will be a couple of hundred units of affordable housing, which are going to be managed and owned by the Southern Chiefs' Organization, and there also will be some pretty interesting and inclusive public space, which PrairiesCan is paying for in part as part of the overall redevelopment.
That project, Portage Place, is connected to the old Hudson's Bay building, for which there is another partnership ongoing between the Government of Canada and the Southern Chiefs' Organization. There will be day care spaces in there. There will be hundreds of units of affordable housing. There will be a museum that's going to be owned and managed by Southern Chiefs' Organization, and there's going to be space for their government administrative offices.
Really, it's one of these old Bay buildings in downtown Winnipeg. I think it's upwards of 600,000 square feet in the downtown that's currently vacant, and we're really looking forward to that partnership. Our government, through the Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities, through CMHC, has invested over $100 million in that partnership. I know it will create hundreds of indigenous jobs, which will benefit not only indigenous communities but also the province as a whole.
If you take another hop, skip and jump further east, you're going to see the the Manitoba Métis Federation, which is, of course, the governing body of the Red River Métis. It's constructing a Métis national heritage centre at Portage and Main, where Bobby Hull signed a million-dollar contract in 1972. That's going to be featuring Métis heritage, Métis culture and the very bright future that the Métis have in Manitoba and Canada. We're working closely with the Manitoba Métis Federation on that project, and that strip of Portage Avenue in downtown Winnipeg will be transformed through our partnership.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it.
Madam Minister, I'd like to talk about economic reconciliation, as well as structural and meaningful capacity-building tools for first nations so that they can focus on their priorities and well-being.
Every time we’ve had the opportunity to ask you questions, the Bloc Québécois has noted the innovative financial tools currently being used by Quebec's indigenous communities. These tools have a direct impact on each of these communities, and are an opportunity to do away with programs that are ill suited to their modern reality.
You're familiar with the Yänonhchia' program. It's an indigenous housing finance model designed, directed and managed by indigenous people. You've had access to this file since February 2023, if not longer. What do you intend to do with it?
There is indeed an indigenous middle class now, but the federal government seems once again intent on ignoring it and any solutions for indigenous communities in Quebec and Canada.
It's October 2024. Have you had an exchange with Minister about the Yänonhchia' program?
:
Thank you for that very important question.
Yes, I have discussed the program with my colleagues as well as with Chief Haymond, who leads it.
[English]
We have also, as you know, proceeded in the same direction that you're talking about, Monsieur Lemire, regarding self-determination and housing, with the urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy, which sets aside $4 billion for first nations, Inuit and Métis distinctions-based housing that is obviously off reserve but certainly in areas of Canada where many first nations and indigenous peoples live.
I am excited about the programs—
:
There's a lot of enthusiasm for new approaches to mitigating infrastructure risks and improving housing affordability for indigenous communities.
[English]
That's the reason we've been working not only with people like Chief Haymond, but also through large economic partners, like the major banks in the country, to talk about de-risking lending, for example, for first nations communities and about creating better tools for first nations communities so that they are able to pursue infrastructure at their own speed.
We also have other tools for first nations that allow for full self-determination in terms of priorities, like 10-year agreements that allow for first nations communities to receive block funding over 10 years, so that they are able to plan for a variety of different social and infrastructure needs across the board.
:
[
Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
I'm sorry. I don't have a lot of time. I was hoping to hear a shorter response.
Now my question will be for Minister Patty Hajdu because of the time restraint we have.
You told us, for example, about Bill and Bill . Those pertain to indigenous people. My question, Minister Hajdu, is why these bills haven't reached indigenous communities. They don't seem to be effective. As indigenous people, we are rights holders, but they are not respected.
Can you give us a clear response, please?
Some of the bills I listed, as you know, are under way. Bill is currently in front of this committee and, as I said, we'll be going through clause-by-clause. That's very important.
We hope we will see less obstruction in the House of Commons so that bills like Bill can actually get debated. Bill C-38, as you know, is about continuing to address inequities—in particular, gender-based inequities—in the Indian Act. There are families waiting for that bill to be debated in the House to finish the important work so that we can right these wrongs.
What we need is committees doing the important work on Bill . On Bill , we need to see movement in the House so that the debate can actually continue on legislation that matters to Canadians.
Thank you, Minister, for appearing at committee.
We've even heard from one of your Manitoban colleagues that this might be one of your last appearances at committee, so again, thank you for appearing today.
We saw not long ago that you were openly critical of the around a Senate appointment in Manitoba. I have an article from The Globe and Mail, which reads:
A federal Liberal cabinet minister is criticizing Charles Adler's appointment to the Senate, saying there are Manitobans better suited to represent the province....
Northern Affairs Minister Dan Vandal...offered his view in a statement his office released on Monday.... “There are many eminently qualified Manitobans who are better suited to represent our province than Charles Adler,” he said.
We even saw our chair recently make public a comment about a concern around the sitting . In a CBC article just last week, entitled, “Some Liberal MPs issue a deadline to Trudeau: make up your mind to stay or go by Oct. 28”, it reads, “Sources said MP Patrick Weiler read a letter to Trudeau today during the party's caucus meeting on Parliament Hill—
Thank you again, Minister.
The and your government have been in power for the last nine years. Clean drinking water is still not done despite the PM's promise in 2015 to have all boil water advisories lifted by 2021. Food is expensive, made worse by the Prime Minister's carbon tax. Heating costs are high and made a lot worse by the Prime Minister's carbon tax. Housing needs in Canada are highest in Nunavut and getting worse. To give you some numbers from the “Northern Housing Report”, which is right in front of me, 49% of families in Nunavut are unable to affordably secure market housing, and, for a more stark number, more than 80% of families can't afford to purchase a single detached home in Nunavut. That points to an exceptionally high poverty rate in Nunavut, the highest in the country. As well, our Arctic sovereignty is more at risk than at any point in our history.
Minister, countless promises made by the to northerners have been broken. Countless announcements won't feed, heat or house northerners. A lot of promises have been made and a lot of money spent, but there's little to show for it.
I guess what is mystifying to me is this: With such a bad record in the north, how can you still have confidence in the ?
I'd like to welcome all our witnesses and thank them for coming. It's a pleasure to have them with us today.
My question is for the Minister of Indigenous Services.
[English]
Minister Hajdu, you raised the importance of education in your opening remarks, including the investment in a new K-to-12 school on Piikani Nation, which sounds like an incredibly positive step for that community.
UNDRIP also underscores the importance of education in article 14, paragraph 2, highlighting the right of indigenous individuals to access education “without discrimination”.
In Quebec, the implementation of Law 14, more commonly known as Bill 96, is creating new and unfair obstacles that discriminate against indigenous CEGEP students and that undercut their chances of graduation. Students are frustrated and rightfully feel that they ought to be supported in their pursuit of higher education, but instead, many have expressed feeling set up to fail.
Can you speak to the importance of removing barriers to education for indigenous students, particularly in my home province of Quebec? Thank you.
I would count Regional Chief Picard as one of my most trusted advisers, actually. He and I have spoken a lot about any kind of barrier that presents a challenge for graduation being, in particular, even more detrimental for indigenous students or for other students with vulnerabilities.
What I can say is that the focus of our federal Liberal government has been to really ensure that education is at the core of what we do. In fact, when we were first elected, I have to tell you that one of our first actions was to reverse the discriminatory funding for education systems on first nations. The Conservatives had kept first nation education systems barely able to keep the lights on. In fact, many first nation boards of education really struggled to deliver curriculum, with, in many cases, a significant disparity between what was offered for provincial students in the same setting. That's why not only equity in funding but also reshaping how we support communities to deliver their own education, culturally appropriate education, is leading to increases.
My colleague here spoke about Judy Desmoulin, Long Lake #58, and the incredible success rate they're seeing. I have to say that's in my riding, and I'm really proud of communities that are able to turn things around, from seeing very few students graduate to seeing almost the whole grade 12 class graduate.
In Quebec, for example, in 2022, one of the most wonderful moments of my year that year was signing an agreement with 22 first nations to manage and deliver education for over 6,000 students in their own communities with their own developed curriculum.
I will say this. We work really hard to support first nations to make sure that they have all the appropriate supports in place so that those students are set up for success. We're seeing the results. The graduation rates over the last five years for indigenous students have increased by 10%. That sounds like a small number, but it's huge and significant to those students who are going to go on to be the leaders of those communities.
I can tell you that in Biigtigong, which is also in my riding—a community I know very well—when students graduate as teachers, as doctors, as construction workers, as water operators, they go back to the community and they build a strong community. Those communities have such a wonderful chance to thrive. That's the work we're doing together with first nation communities.
I'd like to talk about francophone groups within indigenous communities. It's somewhat related to my colleague's question.
What measures are your departments implementing to ensure that there is no language-based discrimination and that indigenous organizations receiving the funding they are entitled to can in turn offer francophone communities the documents they need to participate in consultations on issues of interest to them?
Can you tell us whether indigenous communities are eligible for Canadian Heritage programs that exist for these purposes, and provide us with a written list of those that have applied? If so, can you tell us about the decision, i.e., was the application successful or not, and how much have these communities received over the past five years?
I have the impression that there's a big gap here and that it's preventing francophones and indigenous groups from really getting along.
:
We look forward to seeing some results.
I'd now like to turn to the Jay Treaty. This issue may be Minister Anandasangaree’s responsibility, but it also ties in with an announcement made by another one of your colleagues.
Last week, made an announcement about the movement of people at various ports of entry. Indigenous communities want to be assured that you have taken all the necessary steps to ensure that the measures announced will not hinder their travel to the United States, which in their case can be on an almost daily basis.
When will the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act be amended to facilitate the movement of indigenous peoples from their communities to Canada?
:
Thank you for your question.
The special interlocutor was appointed about two years ago by the Minister of Justice, and I was there at the time of her appointment. I've had engagements with her. My office has continuously had engagements with her. We're looking forward to her report. This is her final report. I have read her interim report, and I'm looking forward to receiving the final report tomorrow. I think all three of us will be in attendance, and we will be able to respond in a more wholesome manner.
I know the work she's doing is very important as we address the issues around missing children and residential schools. There are a number of different parts to the report. I'm not sure if the interim report and final report are in the same order or manner, in terms of presentation. However, it is important that, as a government, we have a wholesome response to her report after reviewing it and looking at the feasibility of the many elements of the report we're expecting tomorrow.
During my short previous round, I omitted to thank all three of you, ministers, and the officials for coming. Thank you so much for being here.
Minister Anandasangaree, with regard to the letter from Judy Gingell, chair of the Yukon Residential School Missing Children Project, I just want to read out two paragraphs from the letter very briefly to get your response.
One paragraph says:
This prolonged uncertainty is detrimental to our planning and execution of the vital work initiated by the YRSMCP Working Group. Not to mention the added stress imposed on the Survivors who have committed themselves to this work but now feel silenced by these delays.
Later on, it says:
It is imperative that we establish open lines of communication and ensure that all projects receive the timely support they need to fulfill our shared commitment to addressing the legacy of residential schools and supporting the families affected by this tragic history.
Minister, I believe that communities shouldn't have to limit their work on this subject due to the prospect of uncertain funding available from the federal government. I wonder if you can share some clarity on how the funding will continue to work and perhaps provide some certainty to the YRSMCP working group—and others around the country, for that matter.
:
Thank you for that very important question.
Let me say at the outset that I had an opportunity this summer to meet in Yukon with the communities that are doing the work on missing children. This summer, the department imposed a cap of $500,000 because of the demand that came forward from those who were doing the work. I note that all of the communities are at different stages of seeking answers.
So far, we have invested $323 million in supporting communities through the fund. Right now, as we speak, we continue to approve funding requests even above the million-dollar mark. The deadline for applications is November 15, so we continue to assess the nature of the applications and are making sure that we can best support them.
We will need additional funds, which we are very committed to seeking from the , in order to ensure that there is funding going forward. However, I can assure the communities doing the work that, from the outset—from the time of Kamloops to now—we have been with the communities every step of the way, and we have continued to support projects that have been working directly with communities that are working on specific projects based in their local communities. In Yukon, I believe all 14 communities are working together on one project, which is one of the issues I talked about, because there are a number of different communities that may have different projects in mind that we can also work with.
Our department has been very open to having discussions with communities and those groups that are working to secure funding, and we will continue to be available. Make no mistake, though; we will ensure that there is funding for communities every step of the way. It's a commitment that made, that I have made and that the has made. We will not leave anyone behind.
:
Thank you so much for that reassurance.
Minister Hajdu, I have just over a minute, but I want to refer to the study carried out by this committee previously. I was able to sub in for one or two meetings on the non-insured health benefits, NIHB, program. Of course, this is used by Yukoners every day.
After the study by this committee, the government response in April 2023 outlined some progress. It said, for example, “The review of the medical transportation benefit is in progress, and provides a space for the NIHB Program to hear key issues and priorities raised by First Nations partners”.
Particularly with regard to medical travel, because I hear a lot of ongoing concerns, could you update me on what you're hearing and how the government is really going to respond to improvements in the medical travel component of the NIHB?
Minister Hajdu, my colleague earlier asked about a case involving the Canadian Health Care Agency. It is a non-indigenous company, very clearly. It was able, nonetheless, to take advantage of contracts that were supposed to go to indigenous companies because it entered into a joint venture. Its partner in the joint venture was a one-person company, and that one person happened to be an employee of the company. It said, “Hey, let's go into joint venture with one of our employees. Therefore, we will call ourselves an indigenous partnership, even though this is a totally non-indigenous company.”
Can we at least agree that this is a clear instance of an abuse of the program? Would you agree that this is an abuse of the program?
:
Chair, I have a point of order.
There are clearly established rules about the obligation of witnesses at committees to answer questions. Those rules apply to ministers. It's not like in question period where the Speaker doesn't enforce rules around the content of the answers. There is a requirement, and it is a matter of parliamentary privilege that witnesses have to answer the questions that are asked.
I've been through two rounds, and the minister hasn't answered a single question I've asked. Quite specifically, in the last round, I put a simple question to the minister.
It doesn't matter if it's a minister or someone else. I would ask you to call our witnesses to order and expect them to provide answers to the questions that are being asked.
Thank you to the presenters. It's always a very interesting discussion when ministers join us.
Most of you know that I've been advocating for indigenous rights my whole life and trying to make sure that our indigenous people have a better quality of life. The reason I got involved in politics was the extreme poverty that I witnessed as I grew up in the small indigenous communities in the north. I listened to our elders speak about signing treaties and signing the scrip so that we could coexist. However, what was in the agreements was not honoured or not carried out.
We have seen, right across the Northwest Territories, people working toward signing modern treaties. These treaties are intended to provide clarity. In the Northwest Territories, we have 15 tables where people are discussing different issues. Hopefully, we're going to come to a point where everybody will come to an agreement.
The was very clear in 2015 that we would be moving forward in a nation-to-nation type of arrangement. However, there are still some policies that are old and that do not fit. Some of them irritate me quite a bit. The comprehensive claim is the one that I think we need to pay some attention to and see if there's a way to replace it.
I want to ask Gary Anandasangaree a question about where things are, what kind of work is being done by him and the department, his office, to advance recognition of rights in Northwest Territories. We heard what is going on in B.C. It seemed to work for them. We're very keen to see if that's something that could be considered in the Northwest Territories. Also, could he give us an update on what he's doing to resolve some of the outstanding land claims and self-government negotiations that are happening?
:
Thank you, Mike, for that question and those comments.
It was really good to be at the table with the NWT premier, as well as the partners from NWT, several weeks ago. I think you were there as well. We had a comprehensive discussion on a range of issues, especially relating to modern treaty holders. Through them, we have been able to introduce legislation, Bill , on the commissioner for modern treaty implementation. I believe there is progress being made.
We are in discussions on issues, such as education with the Tłı̨chǫ government, that are going to be critical for self-determination over issues such as education. The challenge is that we have not been able to land and complete a treaty in recent years. Much work has been done over the years, but there are still elements that we need to complete.
I want to underscore and say again for the record that the comprehensive land claims policy is not something that we are currently implementing. It is a very different conversation when we talk about modern treaties right now. We've moved away from that, and we are in an era where we are at RIRSD tables, where rights recognition is a cornerstone
I want Ms. Gideon to have a chance to add to that in terms of the comprehensive land claims policy, because I have said it on a number of occasions and maybe we have not been very understanding of each other.
I'll ask Val to add some light to this.
:
Mr. Chair, I have one more question, so I'm just going to jump into it.
First of all, I want to say, if we're not implementing the comprehensive claim policy, get rid of it. Why keep it if it's no good? We're not implementing it because it's no good.
I want to ask one more question about the historic levels of funding that we've been receiving over the last few years for housing, for governance and for a number of different things. They're not long-term commitments. We're going to come to an end of some of these funding cycles. What are the plans for the next steps?
We don't have reserves, so—
Pseudo-indigenous people, or pretendians in English, are non-indigenous people who falsely claim indigenous ancestry or identity to take advantage of it for personal gain. What are you going to do about this?
You've got the situation of the Algonquins of Ontario. The Chalk River project was socially sanctioned despite objections from nearly every Algonquin and Anishinabe nation.
There's the Métis of Ontario and the Métis National Council who lost their raison d'être with the scrapping of Bill , but continue to receive federal funding.
The federal government awards contracts to companies that falsely claim to be indigenous. Canadian Heritage provides grants for indigenous cultural events organized by non-indigenous artists.
Academics and civil servants occupy positions designated for indigenous people, but no one has looked into whether they really are indigenous or not.
There are pretendians serving as an insurance policy in consultations conducted by the nuclear, gas and oil industries, and many other companies.
How far will things go? Will we finally see the end of it? Are you finally going to put your foot down? What’s going on?
:
Thank you for your question, Mr. Lemire.
[English]
Look, it has been a challenge.
There have been a number of areas where the issue of identity or indigeneity has come up. From a departmental perspective, we have section 35 rights holders. They are recognized by the Constitution, but there is a process to attain that recognition. It's a very diligent process. Sometimes it's very frustrating for the people going through this process. However, we have not taken any shortcuts in order to ensure that the integrity of that recognition is sacrosanct. It's not something that can be compromised. At every step of the way.... Section 35 rights holders are those who are already recognized.
The groups you identified are not section 35 rights holders. We do, however, fund organizations, entities or collectives that are asserting section 35 rights for the purpose of ensuring they are able to ascertain or explore that right. I think it is in our best interest to continue doing that, because it is important. If their assertions are correct, we don't want to be disadvantaging them in the long term.
During COVID, we took some exceptional steps to ensure we didn't leave anyone behind. Post-COVID, we have been very diligent in terms of ensuring that only those with section 35 rights are able to exercise that identity.
:
[
Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you, Chairperson.
If I can, I'll continue on from my last comments and questions.
There's a difference between wanting an answer and just being told an answer. I'll give you this as an example. If I ask, “What's one plus one?”, what's the answer? The right answer would be two, but the answers we are getting are just numbers. They're just talking about the topic and not really answering the question. That's my first comment.
I want to tell these ministers, while they're listening, that we, as indigenous people, want to work toward reconciliation, but they're not working toward reconciliation. There are three items. The first two are funding and rights, and the third is having relations. For example, when there's an agreement with indigenous peoples, these are not enough. We've just heard that first nations are not happy. If it were to be signed, it would break our rights because they are not following the steps they need to be following.
As ministers, when you need to provide an answer, it leads us to frustration when we're not getting the answers. How are you going to answer these questions? Through this standing committee, we are trying to work together. How can we work together if you are not answering our questions properly?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the ministers for being here for this discussion.
It has been mentioned already, Minister Vandal, that you will not be re-offering in the next election. I just want to say—and I believe I speak on behalf of everyone here at the committee—we are really going to miss your interactions with Mr. Zimmer. I wanted to make sure I got that on the record. There's never a dull moment.
For my questions, I want to turn to my northern Ontario neighbour, Minister Hajdu.
Minister, I want to ask you about policing specifically.
Recently, the Province of Alberta and National Chief Woodhouse put out a joint statement calling on the government to declare first nations police services as essential services. That's something the Province of Alberta is looking to move toward, which I think is a great step. This is something I believe is vitally important for first nations, especially, frankly, after nine years of your government, during which we have seen crime increasing. We have seen overdoses and overdose deaths unfortunately increasing. All of these challenges are happening right across the country and, unfortunately, first nations are also not immune to those challenges. It speaks to the need for more policing and more resources for first nations policing.
Your government promised, I believe two years ago, that this would be a promise fulfilled, and we have seen very little action to date on that. Can you speak to why your government is dragging its feet on something as essential as first nations policing?
Through the chair, I hope the member has had an opportunity to visit the many communities in his riding in order to see how incredible they are. He's right. Remote communities are challenged with policing, health care and infrastructure. That's why is seized with the work of co-developing a framework with first nations.
You are a member of this committee. You know that co-development work is careful work, and it is listening work. is doing that as we speak.
I will also say that, through the department, I have had the opportunity to be with.... We also support communities on crime prevention through something called the pathways program. This attempts to meet communities where they're at, in terms of reducing the need—
I'd like to ask you this, specifically: Two first nations in my riding announced over the summer that they were going to withdraw from the Treaty Three Police Service. They cited that they did not feel the service was adequate. I know Treaty Three Police has remarkable people working in their organization. I know they are also under-resourced, which is, I believe, the direct cause of why we saw those two communities pull out.
I also heard, through meetings with Treaty Three Police, that it's not necessarily just about a lack of funding. It's also about restrictions on funding. For example, they will sometimes receive funding from the government, but only for a specific thing, such as a police cruiser. That might not be something that is actually needed. One of the major constraints is, frankly, your government being overbearing and dictating to police departments what they can and cannot spend their funding on.
Are you moving to address this and ensure first nations police services have the freedom to allocate funding as they see fit?
I think Treaty Three Police Service is a good example of a tripartite approach to policing. As you know, the federal government funds a portion of policing, and the province funds a portion of policing. In some cases, it's expected to provide those policing services. Obviously, some communities go without in the province of Ontario, as a result of, I would say, continued discrimination in access to services for first nations people in remote communities. We will continue to work with first nations, provinces and policy experts to make sure that whatever we co-develop will be through the lens of self-determination.
I'm glad to hear you speak about that, because it's the foundation of Bill , the water legislation—as you know. It's about restoring self-determination so first nations communities have programs they are in control of that meet their needs. Therefore, I'll look forward to your advocacy at the provincial level as well. I know you know many of those people.
:
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
My first question will be for Minister Hajdu.
Minister, I was quite blessed to enjoy a career as an educator—as a teacher, a coach and a principal. During that time, I was able to work alongside many kids and their families. In particular, I worked with many indigenous families in the northwest part of the city of Winnipeg. Unfortunately, for many of those families and others, a variety of reasons we understand quite well—intergenerational trauma, the poverty that comes from that and other substantial socio-economic issues—made it challenging for a lot of those kids to find success, relative to their peers.
In Winnipeg, just a couple of weeks ago, Minister Vandal and I, alongside others, joined and to make an announcement of $17.3 million, which will add on to a contribution the provincial government in Manitoba already made for a school food program. It is the second province in the country, in addition to Newfoundland and Labrador, to do so. Winnipeg has one of the largest urban indigenous populations in the country, I believe. It's about 100,000 plus in our municipality.
Can you speak generally, Minister, about the importance of programs like this and give us your perspective and perhaps concern when you hear individuals, such as the , refer to these critically important social programs as nothing more than mere bureaucracy?
:
What a fantastic question. I think the big difference between Liberal policy and Conservative policy, to my mind, is that Conservatives don't understand that in order to actually fight crime, you have to prevent crime. You prevent crime by building up communities. You prevent crime by making sure that people have access to quality education and their bellies are full while you do it. You prevent crime by making sure that people feel like they, too, and their children, have a fair chance to succeed.
These guys want to focus on putting everybody in jail. I can tell you that there aren't enough jail spaces available to deal with the issues that you're raising, actually, as an educator. When children go to school hungry, when they're not well supported, when families don't have what they need to be able to help their children thrive, we all pay—and we pay a big price. It's not just crime, as you know. It's very expensive to leave people neglected in our communities.
This is the fundamental difference between Conservative politicians and Liberal politicians. We believe in our communities, and we believe in the possibility of our communities. That's why the school food program is so important.
:
Thanks very much, Minister. I did happen to catch on my left, while you were answering, a comment from a colleague across the way: Why are they hungry? Well, they're hungry because generations' worth of policies on the part of previous governments, both Liberal and Conservative alike, have contributed to detrimental conditions for indigenous peoples, and we continue to live with those realities.
However, having said that, take into account some of the other substantial policy investments that we have made. For example, when it comes to the Canada child benefit, we've said this to families: Hey, do you know what we're going to do? We're actually going to scale this to income, because we recognize that people who have a household combined income of $500,000 a year and two kids don't need the same help that perhaps a single mother or father living in the centre or northwest part of Winnipeg needs.
When we combine the ecosystem with those types of investments, in addition to the foundation we're laying with the school food program and a variety of other steps that we've made, inclusive of that $650-million health care transfer to the Province of Manitoba—in partnership with a government in Manitoba that, I think, we haven't seen over the course of the past decade while there was a Conservative government that decimated the education and health care system in Manitoba—I think that we're finally starting to move in the right direction.
Because it will be perhaps my last opportunity to speak with Minister Vandal, I just quickly would like him to address Churchill, Manitoba. This is near and dear, of course, to many in Manitoba, but part of the reason that it's very dear to me is that my late father spent much of his time as a minister in this government working to advance the interests of the people of Churchill and the town of Churchill.
Minister, very quickly, can you just give us a lay of the land in terms of how those investments that we've made over the years are allowing the town of Churchill to succeed, and where you suspect we're going to be moving forward in order to help build on that foundation?
Thank you.
:
Chair, I have a point of order I'd like raise.
Yes, Chair, I have a question of privilege I'd like to put before you. As I mentioned earlier, we had an instance today where ministers were asked direct questions by multiple different members of the opposition. They refused to answer some; they prevaricated in response to others. I believe you will find that this is a matter touching on the privileges of members. If you so find, I'm prepared to move the appropriate motion.
Witnesses are not allowed to just refuse to answer direct questions. Whether they are ministers or other witnesses, that is the rule of the process—hence, the question of privilege. I look forward to your ruling on that.
:
I appreciate the question that was brought forward by Mr. Genuis. It's something I want to take some time to think about. I will report back to the committee at our next meeting, after I've had a chance to think about this and review the blues of the meeting today. I will come back to the committee with a decision on that, and we'll be able to move forward from that point.
I do want to thank the ministers and witnesses for being here today for two hours answering questions.
Before excusing members, I just want to mention that a lot of members have asked for an extension on the amendments to be provided. We're going to extend that until midnight tomorrow. Make sure that you submit any of your amendments in writing before that point, so we're able to have that tabulated and put in a place so that we can start clause-by-clause consideration on Thursday morning.
With that, is it the will of the committee to adjourn?
Some hon. members: Agreed:
The Chair: The meeting is adjourned.