TRAN Committee Meeting
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Minutes of Proceedings
Liberal
- Karen McCrimmon, Parliamentary Secretary — Non-Voting Member
Ellen Burack, Michelle Sanders and Marc-Yves Bertin answered questions.
The Committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.
Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1, Short Title, was postponed.
The Chair called Clause 2.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 2 to 4 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 5,
Sean Fraser moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 5, be amended by(a) replacing lines 18 to 22 on page 3 with the following:
“commercial governmental purposes; and
(b) vessels that are on location for the purposes of en-”
(b) adding after line 25 on page 3 the following:
“(3) This Act, other than Parts 3 and 4 and section 131, does not apply in respect of wrecks considered as having heritage value under an Act of Parliament or of the legislature of a province.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sean Fraser and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.
Clause 5, as amended, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clause 6 to 20 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS 7; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 21,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 21, be amended(a) by replacing line 5 on page 10 with the following:
“eries and Oceans, he or she must take the measures.”
(b) by replacing lines 7 to 11 on page 10 with the following:
“ion that a wreck poses a hazard, that the owner of the vessel that was involved in the maritime casualty that resulted in the wreck cannot be contacted and that a measure referred to in subsection (1) must be taken, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans must take the measure.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 1; NAYS: 8.
Clause 21 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 8; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 22,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 22, be amended by replacing line 15 on page 10 with the following:“he or she must take the measure.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 1; NAYS: 8.
Clause 22 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 8; NAYS: 0.
Clause 23 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 8; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 24,
Pursuant to the order adopted by the Committee on Monday, May 2, 2016, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the Committee, was deemed moved:
That Bill C-64, in Clause 24, be amended by replacing line 31 on page 10 to line 3 on page 11 with the following:
“dance with subsection 25(1), the vessel must not enter or leave a port in Canadian waters or in the exclusive economic zone of Canada or arrive at or leave an offshore facility in Canadian waters or in the exclusive economic zone of Canada.
(1.1) In the case of a Canadian vessel of 20 gross tonnage and above, the vessel must not operate unless it carries a certificate described in paragraph 2 of Article 12 of the Wreck Removal Convention and issued in accordance with subsection 25(1).”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 0; NAYS: 6.
Clause 24 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 25 to 31 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 32,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 32, be amended(a) by replacing line 3 on page 15 with the following:
“the vessel unattended for a period of 90 consecutive days.”
(b) by replacing line 6 on page 15 with the following:
“for a period of 90 consecutive days for the owner to be found to”
The question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 7.
Clause 32 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 33 to 44 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 45,
Sean Fraser moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 45, be amended by replacing line 24 on page 20 with the following:“ing whether a vessel or wreck poses a hazard, if he or she de-”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sean Fraser and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 8; NAYS: 0.
Clause 45, as amended, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 46 to 56 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0
On Clause 57,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 57, be amended by replacing line 20 on page 24 with the following:“57 (1) The Canadian Coast Guard is designated as a receiver of wreck.
(1.1) The Minister may also designate persons or class of”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
Clause 57 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 58,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 58, be amended by adding after line 15 on page 26 the following:“(5) On receipt of a report referred to in subsection (1), a receiver of wreck must take the necessary steps to determine the owner of the wreck, including giving notice that the wreck was reported, in the form and manner that the receiver considers appropriate.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
Clause 58 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 59 to 66 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0
On Clause 67,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 67, be amended(a) by replacing line 19 on page 30 with the following:
“(4) The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans must, if he or”
(b) by replacing line 23 on page 30 with the following:
“regard to the seriousness of the situation, and may”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
Clause 67 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 68 to 73 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0
On Clause 74,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 74, be amended by replacing line 25 on page 33 with the following:“ted, they must direct a vessel that is about to enter or is”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
Clause 74 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 75 to 94 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0
On new Clause 94.1,
Sean Fraser moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding after line 32 on page 44 the following new clause:“94.1 (1) A notice referred to in any of sections 91, 93, 94 and 108 is to be served
(a) in the case of an individual,
(i) by leaving a copy of it with the individual at any place or with someone who appears to be an adult member of the same household at the individual’s last known address or usual place of residence or, in the case of an individual under the age of 18, with a parent or other person having custody of them or exercising parental authority over them, or
(ii) by sending a copy of it by registered mail, courier or fax or other electronic means to the individual’s last known address or usual place of residence;
(b) in the case of a person other than an individual,
(i) by leaving a copy of it with their representative or with an officer or other individual who appears to control or manage the person’s or representative’s head office or place of business, or
(ii) by sending a copy of it by registered mail, courier or fax or other electronic means to their representative, to an individual referred to in subparagraph (i) or to the person’s or representative’s head office or place of business;
(c) in the case of a vessel,
(i) by delivering a copy of it personally to the master or another individual who is, or appears to be, in charge of the vessel,
(ii) by posting a copy of it on any conspicuous part of the vessel,
(iii) by leaving a copy of it with the owner or operator of the vessel, with the owner’s or operator’s representative or with an officer or other individual who appears to control or manage the owner’s, operator’s or representative’s head office or place of business, or
(iv) by sending a copy of it by registered mail, courier or fax or other electronic means to the vessel or to a person referred to in subparagraph (i) or (iii) or to their head office or place of business.
(2) Service may be proved by
(a) an acknowledgement of service signed by or on behalf of the person or vessel served, specifying the date and location of service;
(b) a certificate of service, signed by the person who effected the service, indicating the name of the person or vessel served and the means by which and day on which service was effected; or
(c) a record of electronic transmission setting out the date and time of transmission.
(3) In the absence of an acknowledgement of service or a certificate of service, service is considered effective,
(a) in the case of service by registered mail or courier, on the 10th day after the day on which the notice is sent, as indicated on the receipt issued by the postal or courier service; or
(b) in the case of service by fax or other electronic means, on the day on which it is sent, as indicated on the record of transmission.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sean Fraser and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 95 to 106 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 107,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 107, be amended by replacing line 34 on page 49 with the following:“107 The Minister must keep a public record of notices of”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.
Clause 107 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 108 to 109 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 110,
Sean Fraser moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 110, be amended by replacing line 5 on page 52 with the following:“58(1) or (3), section 60 or subsection 82(7) or (8);”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sean Fraser and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
Clause 110, as amended, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 111 to 118 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 119,
Vance Badawey moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 119, be amended by replacing line 28 on page 55 with the following:“of subsection 34(1) or 60(2) or section 70, 78, 83 or 88, if they”
The question was put on the amendment of Vance Badawey and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
Clause 119, as amended, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 120 à 128 inclusive carried severally by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
On Clause 129,
Sean Fraser moved, — That Bill C-64, in Clause 129, be amended by(a) replacing line 15 on page 59 with the following:
“(4) or in relation to the use of property under subsection 86(5), constitutes a debt due to Her Majesty in right of”
(b) replacing line 20 on page 59 with the following:
“ty that resulted in the wreck;”
(c) replacing line 25 on page 59 with the following:
“costs and expenses were incurred; or
(c) in the case of property used under subsection 86(5),
(i) if a wreck is subject to Part 1, from the person that was the owner of the vessel at the time of the maritime casualty that resulted in the wreck, or
(ii) in all other cases, from the person that was the owner of the vessel or wreck at the time the costs and expenses were incurred.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sean Fraser and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 8; NAYS: 0.
After debate, Clause 129, as amended, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
Clause 130 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
Clause 131 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 0.
On new Clause 131.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding after line 29 on page 63 the following new clause:“PART 7.1
Report to Parliament
131.1 Every five years, the Minister must review the operation of this Act and cause to be laid before each House of Parliament a report setting out the results of the review.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
After debate, Clause 131.1 was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
Clause 132 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
On new Clause 132.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding before line 1 on page 64 the following new clause:“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 Section 5 of the Surplus Crown Assets Act is renumbered as subsection 5(1) and is amended by adding the following:
(2) Despite subsection (1), if the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is capable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must take the measures that are necessary to ensure the vessel remains in that condition until it is disposed of under this Act.”
On new Clause 132.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding before line 1 on page 64 the following new clause:“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 Section 5 of the Surplus Crown Assets Act is renumbered as subsection 5(1) and is amended by adding the following:
(2) Despite subsection (1), if the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is capable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must take the measures that are necessary to ensure the vessel remains in that condition until it is disposed of under this Act.”
On new Clause 132.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding before line 1 on page 64 the following new clause:“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 Section 5 of the Surplus Crown Assets Act is renumbered as subsection 5(1) and is amended by adding the following:
(2) Despite subsection (1), if the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is capable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must take the measures that are necessary to ensure the vessel remains in that condition until it is disposed of under this Act.”
On new Clause 132.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding before line 1 on page 64 the following new clause:“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 Section 5 of the Surplus Crown Assets Act is renumbered as subsection 5(1) and is amended by adding the following:
(2) Despite subsection (1), if the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is capable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must take the measures that are necessary to ensure the vessel remains in that condition until it is disposed of under this Act.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 The Surplus Crown Assets Act is amended by adding the following after section 6:
6.1 If the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is incapable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must include as terms and conditions of the disposition that the vessel be either
(a) disposed of in accordance with the Minister of Transport's instructions; or
(b) repaired so it becomes capable of being used for safe navigation.”
“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 The Surplus Crown Assets Act is amended by adding the following after section 6:
6.1 If the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is incapable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must include as terms and conditions of the disposition that the vessel be either
(a) disposed of in accordance with the Minister of Transport's instructions; or
(b) repaired so it becomes capable of being used for safe navigation.”
“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 The Surplus Crown Assets Act is amended by adding the following after section 6:
6.1 If the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is incapable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must include as terms and conditions of the disposition that the vessel be either
(a) disposed of in accordance with the Minister of Transport's instructions; or
(b) repaired so it becomes capable of being used for safe navigation.”
“Surplus Crown Assets Act
132.1 The Surplus Crown Assets Act is amended by adding the following after section 6:
6.1 If the accepted surplus Crown asset is a Canadian vessel, within the meaning of section 2 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, that is incapable of being used for safe navigation, the Minister must include as terms and conditions of the disposition that the vessel be either
(a) disposed of in accordance with the Minister of Transport's instructions; or
(b) repaired so it becomes capable of being used for safe navigation.”
The question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
The question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
The question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
The question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
By unanimous consent, Clauses 133 to 150 inclusive carried serverally by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
On new Clause 150.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding after line 33 on page 67 the following new clause:“150.1 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 269:
Annual Report to Parliament
269.1 (1) The Minister must, on or before June 1 of each year or, if a House of Parliament is not then sitting, within the next 30 days on which that House is sitting after that date, table in each House of Parliament a report on the operation of this Act in the preceding calendar year.
(2) The report must include
(a) a description of the Chief Registrar’s operations in that year;
(b) an assessment of the Canadian Register of Vessels and any measures that the Chief Registrar has taken to improve the accuracy of the Register; and
(c) an assessment of the pleasure craft licensing regime.”
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Sheila Malcolmson — 1;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Cheryl Gallant, Ken Hardie, Randy Hoback, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan, Scott Reid — 8.
Clause 151 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
Clause 152 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
On new Clause 152.1,
Sheila Malcolmson moved, — That Bill C-64 be amended by adding after line 10 on page 68 the following new clause:“PART 8.1
National Strategy
152.1 (1) The Minister must, in consultation with representatives of the provincial governments and of coastal and riverine communities, develop and implement a national strategy to address the abandonment of vessels.
(2) The strategy must include measures to
(a) improve the vessel registration system and, among other things, establish a fee to cover the disposal cost of vessels;
(b) implement a turn-in program that includes the designation of disposal areas for vessels;
(c) implement recycling facilities for wrecked vessels and their components;
(d) support local marine salvage businesses; and
(e) dispose of wrecked and abandoned vessels.
(3) The strategy must also
(a) include an assessment of the adequacy of the resources, including those of the Canadian Coast Guard, dedicated to preventing and responding to the abandonment of vessels; and
(b) provide for the implementation of the measures referred to in subsection (2) in co-operation or partnership with the provincial governments, and for an assessment of the timelines required to do so.
152.2 (1) The Minister must prepare a report setting out the national strategy and the schedule for its implementation and cause it to be laid before each House of Parliament within one year after the day on which this Act receives royal assent.
(2) The Minister must post the report on the website of the Department of Transport within 30 days after the day on which the report is tabled in Parliament.”
The question was put on the amendment of Sheila Malcolmson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Cheryl Gallant, Randy Hoback, Sheila Malcolmson, Scott Reid — 4;
NAYS: Vance Badawey, Sean Fraser, Ken Hardie, Angelo Iacono, Bernadette Jordan — 5.
Clause 153 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
Clause 154 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
Schedule 1 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
Schedule 2 carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 0.
Clause 1, Short Title, carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
The Title carried by a show of hands: YEAS: 6; NAYS: 0.
The Bill, as amended, carried.
ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill, as amended, to the House.
ORDERED, — That Bill C-64, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House at report stage.
It was agreed, — That the meeting of Monday, March 19, 2018, be dedicated to a new study regarding Ocean War Graves and that members of the Committee submit their witness lists to the Clerk of the Committee no later than Wednesday, March 14, 2018.
It was agreed, — That following the meeting of Monday, March 19, 2018, on the study of Ocean War Graves, the analysts prepare a draft report with recommendations and that once adopted, the report be presented to the House.
At 5:36 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.