:
I call the meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 73 of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.
I will start with a few reminders. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. Please note that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted during the meeting.
Welcome to everyone, including all the members. Since we are in public, I would like to welcome to the committee Mr. MacDonald, who represents the riding of Malpeque, Prince Edward Island, and Mr. Carr, who represents the riding of Winnipeg South Centre, Manitoba.
[English]
It's great to see everyone back.
Gord Johns, I don't think you're a permanent member, but it's great to see you here on behalf of our good friend Mr. MacGregor.
Colleagues, today we are starting the first study of Bill , an act to amend the Health of Animals Act regarding biosecurity on farms.
The sponsor of that bill is Mr. John Barlow, the member of Parliament for Foothills and someone who sits on our committee. He's no stranger to us, but welcome, Mr. Barlow. It's great to have you here.
The way we're going to proceed with our format is that Mr. Barlow will have approximately five minutes. I'll be relatively lenient, Mr. Barlow, but we're going to give you some time for some opening remarks. We are then going to try to get two rounds of questions in for Mr. Barlow.
We then have three witnesses coming for what I'll call the second hour, but we're hoping to make it a bit more, about 70 or 75 minutes. I'll try to get three rounds of questions in from the respective parties, if possible.
We'll move quickly.
Without further ado, I'll turn it over to you, Mr. Barlow, for approximately five minutes.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, colleagues. It’s an honour to be here to discuss my private member’s bill, Bill , an act to amend the Health of Animals Act.
This is very similar to a previous bill that we've dealt with, Bill . It basically makes it an offence “to enter, without lawful authority or excuse, a place in which animals are kept if doing so could result in the exposure of the animals to a disease or toxic substance...capable of affecting or contaminating” the facility. Simply put, this enactment would apply existing penalties within the act to people who trespass on farms, properties and facilities where animals are kept. It also proposes to double the amount of those existing fines for groups and organizations that encourage unlawful behaviour that puts the biosecurity of our farms and our farmers' livelihoods at risk.
Colleagues, I really need to stress this next point, as I know all of us have probably been receiving emails and phone calls at our offices. I want to make crystal clear what this bill does not do, and I certainly want to address some of the misinformation that the campaigns have been doing for all of us. This bill does not limit an individual’s right to peaceful protest on public property. This bill also does not prevent whistle-blowers from coming forward when they are witnesses to practices that jeopardize our food security, our food safety or the welfare of animals.
Canadian farmers and ranchers have a moral and legal obligation to look after their animals. It's simply that clear. In fact, farmers and their employees are obligated to report to the appropriate authorities any wrongdoing they see as they operate in a highly regulated environment. They must follow strict codes of conduct to ensure the health, safety and welfare of all farm animals.
Colleagues, the last time I was here on Bill , I dedicated a lot of time in my discussion to the mental health aspect of this bill. I would invite those who are new to this committee to take a look at my comments on the previous bill, and there will certainly be another witness later today who is an expert in this field. I will leave most of that to her.
When this bill was debated in the last Parliament, members from all parties recounted situations in their ridings. What worries me, colleagues, is that since we had that discussion a couple of years ago, animal activists have become even more brazen, to the point where they’re endangering the lives of animals on farms, and in some cases the public and the livelihoods of our farmers. We've seen animal rights activists hang dead pig carcasses from a Montreal overpass. We heard of the hog farmer in Ontario who has been targeted by ransomware, where activists are demanding that the farmer admit the mistreatment of his livestock, which of course is undeniably false.
Where this started, colleagues, was an incident in my riding with the Tschetter family, who woke up one morning to check on their free-range turkey farm and had 40 activists camped out in their barn. It took five to six hours to de-escalate and have these protesters removed. However, the impact on the family has been long-lasting. It impacts them to this day, as they question why they were targeted and what they had done wrong, as they had followed all the rules. Again, they have a free-range farm in Fort Macleod.
Now, opponents of this bill will claim it’s not necessary because there’s no proof of the introduction of disease by trespassers.
First, I think this misses the point of this bill completely, as one issue can make all the difference and it’s a short-sighted argument to justify unlawful behaviour. Second, and I think more importantly, colleagues, is that it’s completely false. We know of at least two incidents. One was in Quebec, where an outbreak of rotavirus was a result of protesters on a pig farm. Rotavirus hadn't been seen in Quebec in more than 40 years. Another was on an Ontario mink farm, where trespassers released thousands of animals, which led to an outbreak of distemper.
Colleagues, some provinces have followed up with something similar, but the vast majority—seven provinces and three territories—do not have anything like this in their legislation.
Finally, I just want to reiterate the impact that having an outbreak of an animal disease or an animal-borne virus on our farms could have on our farm families and certainly on our economy. Protecting Canada’s food supply is absolutely critical. That is one of the pillars of what we do here in this committee. Viruses like avian flu, African swine fever, and foot and mouth pose substantial threats to Canadian agriculture.
In 2014, 10 farms in the Fraser Valley had an AI outbreak and more than 200,000 birds had to be euthanized. The most serious outbreak of avian flu in Canada took place in the Fraser Valley in 2004 and led to the slaughter of 17 million farm birds. Before the outbreak was eventually brought under control, it cost more than $380 million in lost economic income. In the aftermath, a number of changes were made, including self-quarantine, biosecurity protocols, surveillance and laboratory testing.
The most recent outbreak in Canada impacted 7.6 million domestic birds in provinces across western Canada, as well as Ontario and Quebec, with B.C. being the hardest hit.
When we talk about African swine fever.... Thankfully, this has yet to be detected in Canada. The first case of ASF was detected in China in 2018. It spread to every province in the country by 2019 and has been seen in the Asia-Pacific, central Asia, eastern Europe and now the Dominican Republic. It would be devastating if this came to Canada. It would have a $24-billion economic impact.
I want to conclude with this, colleagues. As I said, this bill is not about prohibiting peaceful protests. The problem is that many of these protesters are not aware of the strict biosecurity protocols we have on farms, why they are there, or the fact that potentially trespassing on farms could have catastrophic consequences for our farmers, our food security and certainly our economy.
I know members on this committee understand the importance and urgency of this bill and what it can mean to our farmers, ranchers and producers. I look forward to addressing any questions or comments my colleagues have.
I appreciate your attention.
:
Thank you for that question.
My initial reaction is this. Of course, I'm always open to a discussion on amendments that would help make this proposal better. My concern is this: Are you still talking about a trespasser? I know all of us have visited farms. We've gone through the protocol. We've put on haz-mat suits, washed our boots, put on booties and those types of things. However, we've been invited onto those farms.
If you are saying.... If protesters are still trespassing on farms but they put on haz-mat suits and all those things, are they still having an impact? I would say, yes, they are. It is still impacting the mental health of that farm family. If I woke up in the morning and went down to my living room and some protesters were there who were upset about how I treated my dog, but they were wearing a haz-mat suit and whatnot, does that make it any better? I would say, as a dog owner, no.
I want some clarification. Are you talking about protesters, or are you talking about a regular person who has been invited onto that operation?
:
There are already trespassing laws. We don't have jurisdiction for that. As soon as we touch trespassing in federal jurisdiction, that bill could be challenged in court and rendered unconstitutional. That's what I'm worried about.
We have jurisdiction strictly over what happens inside the farm. That's where we want to present a friendly amendment to ensure that we stay in our—I don't want to use a pun—silo or farm, in terms of legislating the objective of what you are trying to do.
I certainly agree with you. I certainly agree with the objective of the bill. I've met a lot of farmers, in regard to ASF, who are spending $23 million just to prepare the pork industry for ASF over two years. That's a lot of dollars. I've spoken to a lot of poultry farmers out in the Fraser Valley who have been affected by AI—that's poultry that didn't make it to the market. Millions of poultry were killed because of AI.
I certainly understand where you're coming from on this. We are dealing with a new reality. We just went through a pandemic. The objective of the bill serves a purpose to inform potential protesters that there are.... We're in a new world. Geographically, it's a small world now, with diseases travelling much faster than they used to. I know farmers are worried about potential protesters. I know you've mentioned a few cases.
From our perspective, if somebody follows—regardless of the reason why they're there—biosecurity protocols put in place.... That's where we would put a friendly amendment to ensure we respect the areas of jurisdiction of the federal government.
:
Yes, I understand and appreciate the clarification. Certainly there are trespassing laws in place, which is why we didn't go with the Criminal Code but amended the Health of Animals Act. We did not want to try to go down a path we thought was going to be onerous.
The issue with the trespassing laws in many cases, other than in B.C., is that, for the most part, there is a fine of a couple of hundred dollars. We have to understand that these groups are fundraising tens of millions of dollars off these events. They're filming them, and they're fundraising off them, so there would have to be teeth to this that will make it a deterrent for these groups to do that.
My concern with your amendment, in all honesty, Mr. Drouin—and maybe we should have more discussion with stakeholders on this—is that we would now be giving an invitation to protests by saying that as long as you follow protocol, you're more than welcome to trespass on farms. That's not the message we're trying to portray here.
We're trying to say that our food security must be paramount. As you mentioned with the great analogy of COVID, imagine, on a similar scale, what would happen if we had a viral outbreak like African swine fever and what impact it would have on our economy and our country.
These protocols are in place for a very important reason, and they must be followed. As part of that, there has to be a line in the sand where, if you are not up to understanding the protocols, understanding the procedures and understanding why they're in place, you should not.... Protest as much as you want—you're welcome to do that, and it is your right—on public property outside the farm gate, but there has to be a line where we say that you're putting too many people and animals at risk when you cross that line.
I don't think there's any question that these protests, when they happen, are well planned and well thought out. I'm sure one of the reasons the Tschetter farm in my riding was targeted was that it is right at the junction of Highway 2 and Highway 3, two of the busiest roadways in southern Alberta, so they would get a lot of attention. At that time, Alberta did not have trespass laws in place, as it does now, which were a result of this issue and a result of our initial bill, which some of the provinces have copied in terms of what we had first proposed.
Canada is one of the top 10 targeted countries in the world when it comes to these types of protests. One of the reasons for that, I believe, is that we do not have a national initiative in place—which we are proposing here—that is a deterrent to these groups.
We don't have definitive numbers in Canada, but some research on the United States shows that these groups fundraised close to $90 million last year. That's a huge number. There's no question that this is a fundraising initiative for these groups, whose sole goal is to end animal agriculture, which I would hope all of us would oppose. That's why these deterrents have to be in place. There has to be a financial deterrent to these groups doing this; otherwise, they will continue to frighten our farmers and impact our daily lives.
:
Thanks for that question, Mr. Johns. I know that this is a pretty important issue for both of us.
If I can, I want to correct the record as I'm taking a quick review of some of the data we've collected here. I think I said that these activist groups had raised about $90 million in the United States last year. It's actually $900 million; I forgot a zero there. That shows what's going on.
In terms of how this protects the mental health of farmers, this is really what inspired me to do this. When I met with the farm family in my riding after this had happened to them, the looks on their faces were.... I was surprised by how hard they took this. They just didn't understand why they were targeted. They were basically saying, “What did we do wrong? We have free-range turkeys. We do everything that the CFIA has asked us. Our animals mean everything to us. In no way would we ever put them in danger.” Then I had phone calls from farmers across western Canada asking, “Is it now open season on farming?” No one was charged in this issue. I think two people out of the 40 were given a $250 fine.
Farmers just feel like they are being targeted and attacked for what they do. Are there bad actors? I'm sure there are, but the vast majority of farm families are doing everything they possibly can to protect their animals, water and soil. They just feel like there's no one out there standing up for them. I feel that something like this would show some leadership from the federal government's side that says, “Yes, we are there to protect you” and would put some parameters in place that will deter this illegal activity from happening.
Yes, of the two amendments that we had, one from the Bloc and one from the NDP, we kept the one from the Bloc, which is the “thing” talked about there. I don't want to put words in Mr. Perron's mouth, but I believe the idea there was that you could be bringing in water or food.
We saw this specifically with protesters who were feeding pigs in a truck along the side of the highway. That's where the language for that came from. We have to expand that because even if you are bringing in food, water or other things, they could be just as harmful. The cellphone point is one I hadn't thought of, so that's interesting.
Again, the reason we did not include the NDP amendment at this time is that further review.... We were very proud to have the support of all parties at the end of this to get this through to the Senate. Unfortunately, an election happened, and we had to start over. However, in consultation afterwards, we felt that it was a redundant amendment. We are protecting whistle-blowers in the language of the bill. If you are lawfully on the farm as a farm employee or a member of the farm family—which a whistle-blower would be—then you are not encapsulated in this bill. You have a reason to be there. If you, as an employee, see something that is happening on the farm, processing plant or whatever, then, yes, you should come forward and file a complaint. Go to the RCMP, the CFIA or Health Canada, whichever avenue you want to take. We felt this was already strong within the wording of the bill.
However, I'm always willing to work with my colleagues. If there are ways to improve this, then I'm open to suggestions.
Mr. Barlow, thanks for the information you have provided thus far at committee.
I certainly take your point about the mental health impacts on farmers and the disruption to everyday livelihoods when there are significant demonstrations or events taking place on their property.
We've talked a lot about these animal rights activist groups. I'll trust you until I fact-check the $900 million, in terms of fundraising. What is it that animal rights groups are finding that is driving them back continually to these farms? Surely you don't raise $900 million if you send an empty video clip to those you're trying to fundraise from—assuming, as per your suggestion, that that's what they're trying to do.
I'm curious as to what it is they are discovering when they go to these farms. What is problematic in their minds and the minds of those who are supporting them, and how does this bill help address that?
:
Thank you for the question.
I can't speak for all of these groups and what they think they're seeing.
I think it's twofold, Mr. Carr. There's no question that this is a successful fundraiser for them, obviously, from the numbers we have seen. Perhaps I will table this document with the committee, so you can see that. In many cases, are they catching some things that shouldn't be happening? Perhaps. Again, these fundraising numbers are from the United States. I want to be clear on that. We don't have definitive numbers for Canada.
In many cases, a lot of consumers or Canadians don't understand what they are showing. For example, on the Tschetter farm, when they opened the doors to the barn, turkeys or chickens panicked. They were “fight or flight”. They ran over each other and stomped and literally trampled each other. I know that, in one video we saw, they said, “Look, we have a couple of dead birds.” Well, those birds died because those protesters went in. Those birds were not expecting it and didn't know who they were. You have 30 or 40 people coming in there. It scares the crap out of them and they trample each other. If you've been in a chicken barn, you understand. It's 35,000 birds in some of those things. There's a lot of room to go around, but when you have them all rushing into one area, that's what happens.
I think that, in many cases, they're being disingenuous about what's happened. We've seen a couple of cases where the videos they put up were actually not from that farm at all.
Listen, I think the overall goal of these groups.... I could quote from some of those. I have it here. “Humane meat? There is no such thing.” That's from Animal Outlook. This is from the Good Food Institute: “Eating meat is not your personal decision, any more than...whether somebody beats their child is their personal decision.”
Their goal is to end animal agriculture. That's the justification for what they are doing.
:
Thank you for responding to that.
You mentioned a few moments ago the importance of strengthening the reputation of the industry and that the stronger the reputation of the industry, the better things can be for us internationally.
One of the things I've heard from folks who have reached out on the bill is that they feel as though they don't have enough information about what's going into the production of their food in Canada, everything from how the animal is treated prior to being slaughtered to when they're slaughtered and after. What do you think we can do, whether it's through the provisions of this bill or regulations beyond it, that will help work with industry to provide Canadians with a better sense of how things are being produced?
I'm a former teacher and school principal. We all know The Simpsons references from years past on how the agricultural industry went, but I'm curious as to whether there are educational materials that you think we can work to produce with industry, in partnership with some of these groups, as a fair compromise to provide Canadians with a transparent look at what's happening.
In my mind, that strengthens the international reputation, as you've referenced, and perhaps it helps to mitigate some of the tensions between the groups that are bringing attention to this and the farmers themselves. The by-product of all that is that we have safer regulations, greater protection and a reputation that's going to help advance the economic export piece. I'm just wondering if you can comment on what we can do around that.
:
I think that's an excellent point. You said you were a principal. I would say it starts in the elementary classroom. Agriculture should be part of the curriculum. We've all heard of Agriculture in the Classroom, for example, but very few schools actually use that program.
The point is that we're seeing two extremes and we're not seeing the middle. I think a lot of these protesters have the best of intentions, but again, they just don't understand what's actually going on and the standards and protocols we have and why they're there. That education element, I think, would go a long way towards alleviating some of their concerns, and it would also be a great educational tool for those Canadian consumers who just don't know where their food comes from. I think that for all the things we discuss here, probably the number one underlying issue we have is that most Canadians and consumers don't understand what happens from the farm gate to when they purchase that item at the grocery store. There's a lot that goes into that middle part.
As part of this bill, I think that certainly we can work with industry, which I believe is trying to do its best to get the message out there. Are people listening, though? I'm not so sure. I think that having an education program as part of the education system is integral. As to why we don't have that, I think that's something we could talk about for hours here.
You led a tangent right into my next question, which is a bit tangential to the bill, but it deals with biosecurity in animal agriculture.
CFIA has proposed some new regulations around fair societies. I'm going to be speaking at and attending the annual Highgate Fair, in its 169th rendition. I'm a little over a third that old. There are proposed regulations that put an onus on traceability, again for biosecurity reasons, on the animals that will be displayed there. Can you comment?
My understanding from agricultural groups and organizations.... Obviously, they support a solid traceability regime, but are they willing to maintain that regime and the responsibility for it through that setting...so that the 83% who are volunteers in our ag societies are not discouraged from volunteering?
:
I'm going to go back to one of the previous questions.
We know that animal rights groups have expressed some concerns about the bill, stating that it's not about the health of animals as much as it's about a trespass law. Hopefully you can help me with that.
We know that many instances of animal abuse on farms have been documented by farm employees who work there. I think you've been very supportive of that in stating that. If a farm employee with lawful authority or excuse to be on the farm property were to document an instance of animal abuse using a “thing”, as I raised earlier, for example a cellphone camera, it seems that what you're seeking to do here is have that farm employee indirectly subject to a $50,000 to a $200,000 fine and possible jail time. Does that not seem like an awfully tough punishment for documenting instances of animal abuse?
Maybe you can dive in a little more on that, the concern about that language, because that's where it could lead.
:
I call the meeting back to order.
I would now like to welcome the second panel of witnesses.
First, from the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, we have Pierre Lampron, second vice-president, who is joining us by video conference, and Brodie Berrigan, director, government relations and farm policy.
From the Do More Agriculture Foundation, we have Megz Reynolds, executive director.
Finally, we have two representatives from the Union des producteurs agricoles: Paul Doyon, senior vice-president, who is joining us by video conference, and Annie Tessier, assistant coordinator, marketing and group support.
Welcome, everyone, and thank you very much for joining us this morning.
[English]
Colleagues, we're going to have five minutes for each organization for opening statements. Then I'm going to try to make sure that we can get in as many questions as possible.
I'm going to start with the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and either Mr. Lampron or Mr. Berrigan.
You have up to five minutes. I'll turn the floor over to you.
:
Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
My name is Pierre Lampron, and I am second vice-president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, CFA, and a dairy farmer in Quebec.
The CFA is Canada's largest general farm organization. We represent over 190,000 farmers and farm families across Canada that are the heart of a Canadian agri-food system generating $134.9 billion of Canada's gross domestic product.
I want to be clear that the CFA supports Bill . As a dairy farmer myself, I fully appreciate the critical importance of ensuring that strong biosecurity measures are in place to protect our animals, our livelihood as farmers, as well as our economy.
Before diving into why the bill is so important for Canadian farmers, I would like to start by reminding the committee that producers are already taking a leadership role in promoting animal welfare and on-farm biosecurity. Across all animal industries, farmers have put strict biosecurity protocols in place to ensure the health and safety of their livestock.
As a dairy farmer myself, I am most familiar with the national standard on biosecurity for Canadian dairy farms, which was developed by the Dairy Farmers of Canada in collaboration with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. This is just one example, but every livestock commodity has their own biosecurity standards.
The national standard for dairy farms focuses on four biosecurity control areas that result in a significant reduction in disease and human food safety risks and includes: restricting visitors' access to animals; ensuring the farm is well maintained, clean and sanitary; ensuring that there is a herd health plan in place that includes a proactive veterinary response to disease risk; and keeping new animals separate from existing animals until they represent no disease risk.
On top of that, the dairy sector has integrated biosecurity into its proAction certification program, which offers proof to customers that the sector is ensuring quality and safety, animal health and welfare, as well as environmental stewardship. Those are the pillars of the proAction certification program.
Unfortunately, industry alone cannot prevent a breach of biosecurity protocols. We need the support of governments across Canada, including the federal government, to ensure that our animals and our livelihoods are protected.
To date, several provincial governments have put in place legislation to prevent trespassing on farms. However, these laws are not uniform across the provinces. Bill fills a critical gap in that legislative framework because it focuses more on preventing biosecurity risks than on trespassing.
Furthermore, we would argue that biosecurity is very much a national issue with potential consequences that go beyond provincial boundaries and affect our food production, our farmers' mental health and our economy.
Strong biosecurity measures are necessary not only to reduce the risk of spreading disease and stress on the animals; they also serve as proactive measures to strengthen our domestic food systems to ensure food security for Canadians.
Without strong biosecurity protocols, there is a risk of disease outbreaks that jeopardize our national food supply and our farmers' ability to provide food to their communities. In addition, the mental health and well-being of producers and farm employees could also be affected owing to animal welfare impacts and loss of livelihood.
Finally, in the context of international trade, the integrated nature of our markets has long made clear the importance of animal health and animal biosecurity as key priorities.
An outbreak of an infectious disease in any sector has disastrous effects, including but not limited to closing our borders to trade, lost trade opportunities, and increases in production costs.
Thank you for this opportunity to speak today. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
:
Farmers are used to adversity. They watch as an entire crop is destroyed in a 10-minute storm. They grieve, powerless, as disease rips through their herd or flock. They watch market prices tank when global production is good. They pray for rain, for markets, for health and for safety. On a daily basis, they pray for an understanding of who they are and what they do.
I sit before you today on behalf of Canadian farmers in my capacity as the executive director of The Do More Agriculture Foundation. We are the national voice and champion for mental health in Canadian agriculture.
Last spring, just as avian influenza was moving across Canada, I sat down with a group of poultry producers in Nova Scotia. The focal point of our conversation was mental health and the challenges farmers are facing that lead to chronic stress, burnout and anxiety. A conversation that is usually robust was lilted. The producers sharing their table with me were more focused on the migratory birds outside the window than on our dialogue. They were living day and night with the fear that avian influenza would show up in their barns, introduced either by wild birds or through a break in biohazard security.
I didn't grow up in agriculture. I grew up in the city, and before moving to a farm, I never would have thought twice about walking into a barn full of animals. It never would have crossed my mind that walking into a biosecure barn housing 30,000 birds could result in introducing a disease like avian influenza that could see that entire flock dead within the week.
Producers across Canada are not expecting everyone to know the ins and outs of their operations or of animal husbandry, but they are asking for help. They are asking for protection and for understanding, and for Bill to be enacted to protect their animals, their families, their farms and their livelihoods. Agriculture is an industry with a foundation of deep rural roots, hard work, resilience, strength and community.
On a daily basis, farmers deal with numerous factors that are outside of their control and directly influence their mental well-being. Farmers should not have to add to that living with the fear of protesters trespassing into enclosed areas and endangering their animals, their livelihoods and Canadian food security.
Farmers are among the most vulnerable when it comes to mental health challenges like stress, anxiety, depression and burnout. In 2021, the University of Guelph found that one in four Canadian farmers felt like their life was not worth living, wished that they were dead or had thought about taking their own life in the last 12 months.
Sandi Brock and her husband raise sheep and run a grain farm outside of Hensall, Ontario, in a place that she feels is sort of like the middle of nowhere, yet Google has led strangers straight to her door. Sandi has been kind enough to share her story through me.
She writes:
I have long feared the forces of anti-agriculture (specifically livestock) that have made it their mission to end animal agriculture. In the same breath, I also respect where people are in regard to their core values.
In 2017, I decided to start a YouTube channel to “bring” people onto our farm, and into our lives as farmers on an Ontario family farm. Instead of expecting the general public to trust and understand what we do, I turn my camera on, almost daily, to bring them alongside us to witness it all....
I started this channel in the hopes of maybe not changing minds, but instead giving context behind the work we do each day. Not to educate, but maybe to cultivate empathy. As it turns out, millions of people have tuned in over the years and even some that don't agree with animal agriculture have reached out and offered up their genuine respect for us as farmers, and for us as a family.
But my comment section isn't always so nice, and there is always a gnawing in my gut that one day one of those negative commentors will show up at my front door. And trust me, it happens.
Thankfully, so far, the strangers that have found my address and shown up unannounced have been because they like me. Unfortunately for me, I do not know the difference. When these strangers have shown up, I have had an out-of-body experience like no other. I shake from head-to-toe for hours after they leave, and the intrusion stays with me for days after.
We live where we work. The vulnerability of strangers showing up unannounced is one thing, but the violation of privacy is a completely different level, and this is where I can firmly stand beside my fellow livestock farmers.
It feels like, and quite honestly is, a break-in. Businesses and homes are protected by the law. Our farms are quite literally our farms and homes, and in so, should be protected.
I started sharing my life online to help connect, provide context, and give the experience of a small family farm. Sharing did this, and more, and I'm so proud of the connections we've made. But after experiencing even the mildest forms of trespassing, and seeing and feeling firsthand how vulnerable we truly are as an industry I have seriously questioned if it was all worth it in the end.
Thank you.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good morning, everyone.
My name is Paul Doyon. I am the senior vice-president of the Union des producteurs agricoles, or UPA. I am a dairy and maple producer. I am accompanied today by Annie Tessier, assistant coordinator, research and agricultural policy branch, UPA.
Animal biosecurity is a major concern, both for reasons of animal health and welfare and because of the major economic and commercial consequences associated with animal diseases. The UPA believes that Bill , An Act to amend the Health of Animals Act, provides a clear signal of the importance of compliance with biosecurity measures on farms to deter trespassing on livestock premises.
Biosecurity and animal health are among farmers' responsibilities, in part determined by the Health of Animals Act, which sets out the measures to be taken when a disease occurs in a herd. Among other things, the act stipulates that the premises concerned be accessible only to persons authorized to enter them to limit the risk of spreading diseases.
In addition, the various livestock sectors work on prevention and have adopted safety and biosecurity protocols that are often very strict, under which only persons who are authorized and follow those protocols can enter the farms. Agricultural input suppliers, livestock transporters, and renderers also have a role to play in animal biosecurity.
In recent years, the rise of anti-meat and anti-speciesist movements has been felt in many countries, including Canada. A lot of these protests have taken place in public places. However, a more radical faction is ready for civil disobedience and organizes trespassing onto private premises, such as farms. For example, in Quebec, a hog production farm in the Saint-Hyacinthe region was trespassed onto in December 2019. The 11 co‑accused were convicted of breaking and entering and mischief. In April 2021, during a lockdown related to COVID‑19, two activists trespassed onto a dairy farm in the Eastern Townships and tried to release animals.
However, it is well established scientifically that the entry of unprotected persons or those who do not know the rules to follow on a farm site poses a significant risk to biosecurity, as well as to animal health and welfare. The clothes and shoes of an intruder who has not complied with the biosecurity protocol may carry pathogens or contaminants.
Some diseases have decimated herds and resulted in their systematic slaughter. Cases of avian flu in Canadian and Quebec chicken and turkey farms have multiplied and require a significant mobilization of producers and stakeholders.
Those authorized to enter livestock premises know the dangers of their behaviour: sudden movements, random noises or a change in routine can cause stress in the animals and lead to erratic behaviour that can lead them to injure themselves, lethally injure other animals or their young. In addition, an animal that has experienced significant stress is more likely to develop health problems. So without leading to herd depopulation, unauthorized entry could introduce diseases into the herd and require increased use of antibiotics, while the agricultural community—farmers, veterinarians and government authorities—is working to combat antibiotic resistance.
All these factors will have a significant impact on the financial health of the business, but also on the mental health of the producer, their family and their employees.
Several Canadian provinces have specific trespassing laws. Others, such as Quebec, use provincial laws and the Criminal Code to lay charges of breaking and entering or mischief against unauthorized entry into private premises.
Bill is an important tool that the federal government will have to consistently protect farm animals from the consequences of trespassing by providing significant penalties that can deter individuals or groups from trespassing without authorization and without following established biosecurity or animal welfare protocols.
Given that an unauthorized entry into a livestock premises brings an increased risk of exposure to diseases and contaminants for the animals there, whether premeditated or not, we believe it is important to clarify the wording in the act. The act should clearly specify that any person who enters a breeding site, enclosure or biosecurity zone without authorization is deemed to pose a risk, even if he or she complies with the biosecurity protocols in place. It's just as important to respect animal welfare.
Thank you.
:
Yes, thank you for the question.
I think it is a very good question. I had a similar question before about this legislation. This is a very important bill for Canadian farmers, and certainly we're very supportive of it. As was mentioned previously, it is important from a national perspective for farmers, as well as from the perspective of ensuring and supporting our food security objectives, mental health objectives and international trade implications.
In terms of the integrity of the process, I think there are already very strong animal welfare codes of practice in place in Canada. Those animal welfare codes of practice have been co-developed through the National Farm Animal Care Council with a diverse set of stakeholders, including Humane Canada.
In the event where there are bad actors, there is a system in place. We have the Criminal Code of Canada, of course, which prohibits anyone from wilfully causing animals to suffer neglect, pain or injury. I think the other thing to point out is that, at the end of the day, the incentives are there to protect and promote biosecurity and animal welfare. Farmers have everything to lose and nothing to gain from breaches in biosecurity.
That's how I would answer that question.
Thank you, witnesses, for being with us today.
Mr. Doyon, you mentioned something interesting: the additional use of antibiotics that might be necessary following contamination. From memory, I think this is the first time anyone has mentioned this. It's very relevant.
You also mentioned that the legislation in the provinces and Quebec is not equal, and that in one place or the other, certain laws are going to be used. You said that in Quebec, we use the Civil Code and the Criminal Code. People who question Bill tell us it's not necessary because there are already laws that can protect against intrusions.
I'd love to hear you talk about this aspect. Why is Bill essential? What will it change in relation to existing legislation?
First, I really appreciate the part of Mr. Barlow's motivation behind the bill around the mental health of farmers.
Ms. Reynolds, I've learned a lot from your testimony here today and greatly appreciate that, especially as the NDP critic for mental health. I know Mr. MacDonald asked you what more Canada can do to support the mental health of farmers. I know we have the three-digit suicide prevention line coming on board at the end of November, and the bilateral agreements are rolling out with provinces, but there are not a lot of strings attached to ensure that the money is going to go directly to mental health. In fact, some provinces might just put it all into long-term care or other important needs.
The government promised $4.5 billion over five years for mental health that could supply different initiatives, such as targeted funding for mental health for farmers. Can you talk about the need for targeted funding to support farmers and what possibilities could be there to support farmers?
:
Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this.
There is a need to have more of a national approach to farmer mental health. There are some incredible provincial programs. Some have been running upwards of 20 years and have a crisis line and free counselling. Affording counselling can be a barrier, as a lot of farmers are running their own businesses and they don't always have benefits, so sometimes it's the cost.
There is, of course, the stigma piece, and the biggest barrier can be that they're possibly worried to reach out to the traditional systems because that person will not have an understanding of their challenges as farmers. Having that specific mental health support for farmers and having that more nationalized approach.... Having the 988 number is incredible, but we need to make sure that the people on the other end of the line have a connection and understanding to agriculture so that when that person from the farming industry does call in, they are not told to go take a holiday from their dairy farm because they're experiencing burnout and need a break.
It's about making sure we have a national approach, making sure that it doesn't disappear after a couple of years, and then making sure that those who are interacting with those in agriculture have that understanding and are best suited to support them.
I'd like to begin by thanking all the witnesses for being here.
I think everyone on this committee agrees that biosecurity on farms is a real concern and that the mental health and welfare of our farmers is of concern as well. I don't think there's any disagreement on that. I think the disagreement lies with what the intention of this bill is and whether it is necessary. I believe trespassing laws are provincial jurisdiction; we know that, and there are many in place.
Ms. Reynolds, I really appreciate the work that you and your organization are doing on supporting farmers' mental health. It seems to me that the incidence of outbreaks on farms is a real cause of mental health stress for farmers. When I looked through the list of outbreaks, since 2020 at least, they have been numerous, as you know, but it is debatable—we can debate the one—whether any of those were caused by a trespasser.
I'm wondering if this is one of the biggest causes of stress. In the recent report you put out, “Measuring Impact & Identifying Future Action”, in April 2023, you identified 14 causes of stress for farmers. Trespassing wasn't included in any of the 14. Are there not larger issues, and can we not address biosecurity more directly to really address the problem that is affecting the mental health of farmers?
A lot of the causes have been identified, and a lot of it was introduced by practices on farms, in fact.
Mr. Berrigan, I want to go back to something my colleague Mr. Barlow asked earlier regarding the increase in animal activism. First, I want to correct the record, because Mr. Barlow mentioned that all animal welfare organizations are out to end animal agriculture. As you know, you've worked with some and that isn't the case. They are there to protect the welfare of animals as well, and their safety. There are a number of emails we received that have really been concerned with the health and safety of animals as well.
The increase in the numbers we heard from Mr. Barlow, of course, was from the U.S. With the increase in the fundraising and the amount of money that's been donated, why do you think people are doing that? What are they finding on farms? What are they talking about that's happening? Clearly, it's becoming an increasing issue and people are concerned about animal welfare, so what do you think the basis for that is?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
There are a few things I'd like to set straight. Sometimes there's some misinformation, even in our committees. There have been two cases of disease outbreaks because of trespassing. One was in Quebec City, where they had rotavirus on the farm, which they hadn't seen in 40 years, after unlawful protesters were on the farm. Another example was on an Ontario mink farm, where trespassers released thousands of animals, which led to an outbreak of distemper. I'm not sure what the other committee members were hearing, but that's the case of what happened and how protesters have allowed disease outbreaks on farms.
There are a few other things I'd like to put on the record from some of the organizations that are against animals as food. One is PETA, and their revenue was $82.2 million last year. This is a direct quote: “Ending speciesism is our ultimate goal. One strategy to end speciesism would be to end the use of animals as food.” That was Matthew Braun, manager of grassroots protest campaigns, 2021.
Another quote I would like to put on the record is from The Humane League, which has a total revenue of $13.6 million: “find a vulnerable target.... The crueler it is, the quicker the fight is over.” That was David Coman-Hidy, former executive director of the campaign in 2016. Another one is from Direct Action Everywhere, with a total revenue $1.6 million: “We are trying to destroy animal agriculture”, said co-founder Wayne Hsiung in 2016.
I'll direct my questions to Ms. Reynolds.
When farmers see these comments and know that there are hundreds of millions of dollars put into ending what they do, and they see these comments online, like the story you told us of the individual in Ontario, obviously that does affect their mental health. For anyone on this committee to sit here and say that there are no groups out there trying to end animal agriculture, do you think that would be factual?
Thank you to all witnesses here in person and virtually.
I think from today's discussion it's clear that we all want to ensure that farmers are safe, which includes mental health, and we all want to make sure that animals are safe. That's the balance that we seem to be having. We've had this at many committees, in many studies that we've done, and I don't think we need to vilify one side or the other. I think everyone is working for the same thing.
I really appreciate everyone being here. From the Do More Agriculture Foundation, Ms. Reynolds, thank you very much. We have talked about that stigma for mental health and it's one of those big contributing factors in why so many people in the farming industry who are dealing with mental illness choose not to get help. One thing that made me feel good is that you said people are becoming more comfortable talking about mental health.
I still find that there's a bit of the traditional system issue. There's the challenge that people don't want to talk to someone in their community, which is why I'm so proud that we now have AgTalk, which is a peer-to-peer support line, or the suicide hotline that we're putting in soon.
You mentioned that there are issues that are out of farmers' control but limit their ability to do work. The biggest issues I'm hearing about would be climate change, which I think is also in your studies; financial uncertainty; isolation and loneliness, especially in the last few years; and the workload and the time pressure. Those are the major issues.
Where would the concerns about trespassing fit in, in that sliding scale?
:
Thank you, colleagues. We did very well to get three rounds in.
Thank you, Mr. Johns, for giving us a couple of minutes back.
On behalf of the committee, I'd like to thank all of our witnesses here today in the room—Mr. Berrigan and Ms. Reynolds—and on screen—Mr. Lampron, Mr. Doyon and Madame Tessier. Thank you for your contribution to agriculture and for being here today.
Now, just before you go, colleagues, we do have the subcommittee report that the clerk has prepared. We did discuss this. She wants us to be able to move forward and put this forward. I know there were conversations about maybe going in a different direction. That's fine. We, as a committee, can always decide differently, but I would like to table that we did have a subcommittee meeting and we did discuss some things, and if it changes down the line, it changes down the line. I'm not steering you wrong, I promise.
Do I have unanimous consent to concur in the report?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: Colleagues, we'll be back next Thursday, October 5, to continue this study.
The meeting is adjourned.