:
Good afternoon, everyone.
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting No. 73 of the House of Commons Standing on Canadian Heritage.
I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.
[English]
Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022.
While public health authorities and the Board of Internal Economy no longer require mask wearing indoors, masks and respirators are still excellent tools to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and other respiratory diseases, so their use is encouraged.
I want to take this opportunity to remind all participants of some basic housekeeping. You cannot take screenshots or photos of your screen. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, so you don't really need to take screenshots.
There is a globe at the bottom of your screen for those who are on Zoom, and, if you press it, you can get translation in English or French, or the original audio.
Any questions or discussion should be directed through the chair, and please do not speak until I recognize you by name.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, September 20, 2022, this committee is meeting to continue its study on safe sport in Canada.
Our witnesses today—
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thanks to everyone around the table.
As you know, we moved a motion Monday asking for the report that Henein Hutchison Robitaille gave to Hockey Canada several weeks ago, redacted by the law clerk, and we all have notice now that the letter is not here, which is a major disappointment.
Seeing further reports today that, in fact, the government may reinstate funding to Hockey Canada makes it even more of a challenge now. We've read the letter, and I'm very disappointed by it. I would like to have 20 minutes after the meeting closes so we can discuss in camera what we should do to bring the next action forward.
I'm just going to say this. I have seen names being mentioned in several news articles in the last two days, and it's not us, because we've not seen anything. We don't have the reports. The media wants this, but more importantly for me, Hockey Canada has to be transparent, and I'm really disappointed in the letter we received, Madam Chair, from Andrew Winton.
I would like to go in camera for the last 20 minutes of today, after we're done with Canada Soccer, to discuss what we should do going forward.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
On the same point of order, I was quite perturbed, as Mr. Waugh is, that an order from this committee was disregarded by Hockey Canada. You'll recall that when we originally started to convene Hockey Canada to answer questions, they were reluctant to answer many questions because of the report's coming forward.
It seems to me disingenuous that they weren't willing to answer questions then. Now they seem to be less interested in providing the report to us, though we have the ability to ensure that we get a copy of that report.
I think this committee has worked in a very admirable way, in a way that is very rare on Parliament Hill, with all members of all parties working together. Certainly we've had information disclosed to us that we have not revealed, so I support Mr. Waugh's suggestion that we have an in camera discussion later on in this meeting to resolve that, but my feeling is that Hockey Canada has repeatedly spoken of the report in the context of not being able to provide information until the report is completed, and I believe we should be pushing Hockey Canada to provide that report.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I do want to get to Canada Soccer and the witnesses.
I'm in support of Mr. Waugh's proposal to go in camera, but I want to just correct—I have to, I feel compelled to correct. Hockey Canada in their letter did not say they would not provide the report. They said if the committee wanted the report, despite the concerns they expressed to the committee, they would provide the report, and I don't want it to be unfairly portrayed that they refused to provide the report. The letter is very clear that they will provide the report. They wanted to express concerns to the committee.
I believe there is a way to manage receiving the report and also addressing the confidentiality concerns that perhaps Hockey Canada has. Certainly nobody on this committee wishes to impede potential prosecutions by the London police or by Hockey Canada itself investigating its own players, and I'm sure there's a way that we often use to keep the documents confidential by viewing them in certain ways that can alleviate everybody's concerns.
I just didn't want anybody to believe that Hockey Canada had said they refused to provide it. They said they would provide it. They just wanted to express concerns.
Thank you.
That still does not tell me if there is unanimous consent or if there is opposition to Mr. Waugh's motion.
Is there consent? I see your thumb up, Sébastien.
Is anyone opposed?
No?
I think he's just asking to discuss it in camera; that's all.
Clerk, with everyone in agreement, we will end the meeting with our witnesses with 20 minutes to spare. Can 15 minutes do, Kevin?
:
Okay. It will be 20 minutes then.
We will now continue to listen to our witnesses, and as I was about to say, our witnesses today, as individuals, are Nick Bontis, former president, Canada Soccer, who is with us by video conference; Vittorio Montagliani, president, Confederation of North, Central America and Caribbean Association Football, by video conference; and Sean Heffernan, chief financial officer, by video conference.
Witnesses, I just want to let you know that if you are here as an individual, you will have five minutes. If you are here as a group, the group has five minutes, and I will give you a 30-second shout-out—and I mean that literally—when you have 30 seconds left, so you can wrap up your statement.
We will begin now with opening remarks from Dr. Nick Bontis for five minutes.
The floor is yours.
:
Good afternoon, and thank you, Madam Chair and members of this committee, for the invitation to testify today.
My name is Nick Bontis. I am a professor of strategy at the DeGroote School of Business at McMaster University, where I have been teaching for 25 years.
Outside of my university duties, I have devoted most of my volunteer time to soccer. I was first elected to the board of directors of Canada Soccer in 2012 and most recently had the privilege to serve as president.
I stepped down last month as Canada Soccer was in advanced talks on a new collective bargaining agreement with the men's and women's national teams. I believe that this agreement will be a landmark achievement that sets Canada apart from virtually every other FIFA member association in the world. I advocated for pay equity publicly, from the first day I was elected president, and did so throughout my term.
Serving as a volunteer for Canada Soccer and witnessing the progress and achievements of Canada's national teams have given me some of the proudest moments of my life.
I've been playing soccer for 46 years and it has contributed so much to who I am today. It guided me during my younger years at the youth club level, and it allowed me to develop my leadership skills when I played at university and as an adult. Even in recent years, soccer is still a social pastime that keeps me fit with my fellow old-timers on the weekends.
My experience as a youth coach and...how sports helps and shapes how young people develop mirrors my passion as a lifelong educator in a safe environment.
With this in mind, I wanted to address Christine Sinclair's comments at this committee when she testified a few weeks ago. While I do not recall using the language she referenced, I don't dispute it, and my exact choice of words is not the point. What matters is that she felt that I treated her concerns disrespectfully. I feel terrible about making her feel this way, and I have since communicated with Christine and her agent to apologize personally. It was a mistake. I take responsibility for it, and I regret it.
Few people have done more for soccer or women's sport in this country than Christine. She has not only inspired millions of young soccer players around the world; she inspired me as a player, as a coach and as an administrator. Unlocking the full potential of players who want to follow in Christine's footsteps was a large part of why I got involved with Canada Soccer.
Before I conclude, I wanted to express my thanks to the chair and members of this committee for allowing me to delay my appearance until today. I think members of Parliament will have a special understanding for the circumstances that made it extremely difficult for me to testify last week.
As you may know from media reports, for the past 14 months I have been the target of sustained harassment by a disturbed individual who issued threats and abuse toward me, my wife and my three children. During that time I received over 280 emails; my wife was subjected to numerous abusive phone calls, and my children received unwanted messages and were subjected to social media abuse.
Ultimately, I worked with a panic button under my desk in my office here at McMaster. Plainclothes police officers were stationed in the atrium of my building, as the harasser continued to ignore warnings and the cease and desist order that was issued to him. The situation escalated and intensified significantly in recent months, to the point at which a judge issued a search warrant; law enforcement confirmed his online identity, and he was ultimately charged with criminal harassment. However, days before he was set to appear, I was notified by the primary investigator that he had succumbed to his mental illness by taking his own life.
The legal matter was scheduled to be heard in court today. Those of us who aren't used to being in the public glare read about this kind of situation, but nothing can prepare you for it. Every day I worried about the safety of my wife and kids. This may be something that politicians and their families can relate to, but I was not prepared for this. It was not in the job description.
I'm still processing these extremely distressing events. Unfortunately, the abuse continues by others. I appreciate the committee's patience in allowing me to defer my appearance until today. I want to thank Madam Chair for her compassion in my case.
As for today's hearing, I welcome the opportunity to talk about Canada Soccer. I believe the future of our sport has never been brighter, and there is so much to look forward to in the next few years. We have an amazing opportunity to unlock the potential of the millions of Canadians who love and support our game.
Thank you.
:
Good afternoon, and thank you, Madam Chair and committee members, for the invitation to speak to you today.
My name is Victor Montagliani. I've had the privilege of being involved in soccer—or football, as I call it—in this country and internationally for over 30 years. I began as a player and later served in various roles as a volunteer for the game, beginning as a grassroots coach and in other positions in the province of British Columbia. I was eventually elected to the volunteer position of president of the Canadian Soccer Association in 2012.
Given what I have observed and experienced in the evolution of the game over the past 30 years, I want to briefly provide the committee with my perspective on the development and heritage of football in Canada.
For as long as I've been involved, football in this country has fought an uphill battle. As a sport that has long roots among immigrant communities in our country—like the one I grew up in, in east Vancouver—the domestic game has faced challenges in attracting meaningful support from this country's media and corporate establishment. It is not about participation or enthusiasm. We know we are the biggest participation sport in Canada.
During my five years as volunteer president of Canada Soccer—from 2012 to 2017—the lack of interest and support from media corporations meant that Canada Soccer had to spend its own money for our women's and men's national teams to be shown on networks such as TSN, Rogers and CBC, rather than allocating that to the grassroots. To be clear, these expenditures, over a decade, allowed our fans to catch 95% of Christine Sinclair's goals and 100% of Dwayne De Rosario's goals, which would not otherwise have been the case.
However, it is important to know where we stood in 2011 and early 2012. We had no sovereignty and no equity in our own game. We had absolutely no domestic media market. We had very little professionalization and zero industry for football in Canada. We had zero relevancy in the international arena, especially in FIFA and Concacaf. We needed to shift our mindset and shift it fast.
Since then, we've become founding partners of the NWSL with U.S. Soccer and the Mexican federation, subsidizing the salaries of our women's national team players so they could prepare for the 2015 women's World Cup and the 2016 Olympics.
We hosted the women's World Cup in 2015—still, to this day, the greatest women's World Cup in history. We embarked on bidding for the 2026 men's World Cup, which we successfully won in 2018. We created an environment in which investors could come in and start the Canadian Premier League, which has also now set the groundwork for what we hope will be further investors for our Canadian women's professional league.
Of course, this has all been underpinned by the fantastic players in our country—our women's team and our men's team, which have won bronze, bronze, gold and, obviously, the qualification for Qatar in 2022.
Of course, Canadian corporations are private entities and can make choices as they wish, but it was obvious, when I was president of Canada Soccer, that we needed to take a different route and seek out new commercial partners—not only to encourage investment but also to encourage ambition. That meant looking beyond the usual suspects to find new, more dynamic partners with an appetite and a willingness to build domestic football for the long term.
The arrival of the new streaming platforms has provided great news for unlocking commercial opportunities that will help the game in Canada, as well as for Concacaf and FIFA, when the next rights cycles come up. Not only are these platforms shaking up the market; they are also enabling us to make long-term investments in the areas that have held the game back in Canada, namely infrastructure.
The discussions between Canada Soccer and what became Canadian Soccer Business were focused on providing long-term benefits for the growth of the game. No one would ever claim that every decision made or action taken was perfect. However, we must recognize the sacrifice and courage of the Canada Soccer family of volunteers, coaches and, ultimately, fantastic players. This has allowed both the men's and women's programs to break through the tier one ceiling of global football in the last decade.
We have the women's World Cup around the corner and, now, the men qualifying for the Concacaf Nations League for the first time in our history. Canada's future in this sport is very bright.
With that context, I look forward to discussing football with this committee.
Thank you.
:
Hello, Madam Chair and members of the committee.
I'm Sean Heffernan, chief financial officer at Canada Soccer.
As you know, Canada Soccer is the governing body for the sport of soccer in our country. As a member of Canada Soccer's senior management team, I support Canada Soccer's mission to grow soccer in our country from the grassroots to the national levels.
My core responsibility is to oversee Canada Soccer's finances, including financial operations, planning, risks, reporting and record-keeping. I'm also responsible for reporting to the Canada Soccer board of directors on financial topics. Additionally, since the association has a small team, I give general business advice about operational topics to the general secretary.
My remarks today focus on three areas specifically: one, my role in the negotiations of the agreement with Canadian Soccer Business, or CSB; two, Canada Soccer's financial statements and filings; and three, Canada Soccer's transparency in providing the senior national teams with financial information.
With regard to the CSB agreement, the agreement provides valuable broadcast and streaming opportunities for both senior national teams, guarantees annual payments to Canada Soccer, and has secured new partners for investment in grassroots and high-performance soccer in Canada.
From December 1, 2018, until the agreement was approved on February 7, 2019, I was a member of the Canada Soccer negotiating team for the agreement. Prior to that, I provided advice on earlier drafts of the agreement. The negotiating team worked on four specific, limited issues for the agreement: term and renewal, signatories to sponsorship contracts, control of the Canada Soccer brand, and determining acceptable broadcast mediums.
Neither the negotiating team nor I had decision-making power about the agreement. Rather, the team negotiated on the previously mentioned issues, presented the negotiation outcomes to the board of directors, and answered questions from the board.
As has been noted publicly, including to this committee by Canada Soccer's general secretary, the CSB agreement has some shortcomings, including the length of the agreement, the unilateral term-extension option of the CSB, and the limited ability of Canada Soccer to share in upside revenue. To resolve those issues and build a healthier financial future for soccer in our country, Canada Soccer is developing a revenue-focused operating plan and holding discussions to amend the CSB agreement.
With respect to the financial statements and filings, Canada Soccer has always valued transparency, and our intention is to always be compliant with all applicable laws. As such, I want to speak to Canada Soccer's filing with Corporations Canada, as the topic came up at the committee on March 20. I assure you that those filings were made every year during my tenure as chief financial officer. While Canada Soccer has submitted annual Corporations Canada filings indicating changes in board membership and other administrative requirements under those regulations, our filings should have included the financial statements, which we did not provide. Canada Soccer's financial statements are now uploaded on Corporations Canada's website.
The late submission of those statements to Corporations Canada is regrettable, and I accept responsibility for that error, but Canada Soccer has otherwise always exercised a high standard of financial transparency. This is further illustrated by Canada Soccer's practice of publishing audited financial statements on our website. Those statements are also provided to Sport Canada, our members and our partners.
Finally, I wish to touch on my role in providing the senior national teams with financial information related to Canada Soccer. As the committee heard on March 20, Canada Soccer has been negotiating collective bargaining agreements with the men's and women's national teams since June 2022. Those agreements are based on the core principle of equal pay and will compensate each team at a world-class level.
During those negotiations, I helped provide the teams and their representatives with detailed financial information, audited financial statements and breakdowns of Canada Soccer's spending and budgeting processes. I continue to work on providing all follow-up information requested by the teams. The players and their representatives have always been welcome to ask me any questions.
I know the government is considering new reporting and transparency requirements for national sport organizations, and Canada Soccer would welcome direction from the on that topic.
Thank you very much for your attention, and I look forward to answering your questions.
:
I was elected president during a global pandemic. It was a perfect storm. There was no soccer being played in this country at the grassroots level. Even our national teams had to go through World Cup qualification and tournaments. We were forced, because of the health policies in this country, to actually play our home games for World Cup qualification in the U.S., in Chicago and Florida. We had no fans. We had no opportunity to make revenue on those games.
The one thing I want to clarify that I was explicit on from day one of my presidency was that I would not move forward with any new agreement unless it had pay equity baked in, and I communicated that to the leaders of the women's national team, the four women you saw. In addition to their legal counsel, I had a Zoom call with them and through the general secretary I said to them that I was going to support pay equity.
Several months later, in June, as you've pointed out, I met with the men's players prior to the scheduled Panama match. I communicated with them also that I was 100% only going to support a deal that had pay equity baked in. The decision for them to boycott that match was theirs. I don't know what the reasons were, but I've maintained that position. We continued our negotiations throughout the summer. We continued our negotiations through the fall and winter—
:
Thank you so much, Madam Chair, and thank you, gentlemen, for being here today. It's appreciated.
Mr. Bontis, I'm very sorry about what you've gone through recently. Thank you for your fulsome apology to Christine Sinclair. I think it was very genuine, and I want to thank you for that.
I'm going to start with some questions about your opening statements.
First of all, you, Mr. Bontis, and you, Mr. Montagliani, both mentioned your volunteerism. Thank you for your many years of volunteer service.
Mr. Montagliani, how much money did you earn from Concacaf and FIFA in the last year?
:
It's been reported that the amount is north of $125,000. In any case, I am saying, gentlemen, that I will get back to this question, because I think it is relevant in terms of the amounts of money that you guys are earning versus what the women on the national team and the men on the national team are receiving from Canada Soccer.
Mr. Montagliani, you talked about the 2015 World Cup in your opening statement, and how this was the greatest World Cup.
How do you react to Hampton Dellinger, the Assistant Attorney General of the United States, who was appalled by Canada Soccer's behaviour over the turf war, in that this was the only World Cup ever not to be played on natural grass; it was played on turf. He said that reparation payment should be offered to the women athletes and that Canada should be eliminated as a candidate for hosting the men's World Cup because of its failure to properly host the women's tournament.
Why did you not allow natural grass to be used, and why did Canada Soccer refuse that?
:
Again, I would ask you to please produce to the committee any proof that you or Canada Soccer have that FIFA told you to host the tournament on turf.
I am going to move now to Mr. Heffernan.
Mr. Heffernan, you were talking about the negotiating committee for an agreement that we'll be talking about a lot today, the CSB agreement. You said the negotiating committee had four limited things that it was told to negotiate. The agreement is multi-faceted, though, with dozens and dozens of clauses. Why did the negotiating team negotiate only four things?
You're basically saying that those other things were either forced on you or negotiated prior to the negotiating committee's being given the mandate. Please explain to me how the negotiating committee could negotiate only four parts of a very big, multipronged agreement?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I am first going to address Mr. Bontis.
Despite what you said in your preliminary remarks, there is a question I would like to address.
Christine Sinclair said that in the past, soccer players had no money, but the situation was the same for men and women. According to her, women players now have to fight for equal treatment. However, they are not bitter about the terms for the men's team and they believe the players have made huge gains for the national team athletes. The men also support their demands.
Mr. Bontis, we are talking about equal pay and, as we know, there is a significant discrepancy, but there is also a discrepancy when it comes to the right to play.
Why did you have the idea of creating a professional men's league but the women's league was not created at the same time as the men's? At what point did that occur to you?
We really get the feeling that the mindset at Canada Soccer puts women in second place, even when it comes to the right to play in a Canadian league.
:
With regard to the issue of the men's versus the women's league; it's not men's “versus” or men's “or”. It's an issue of sequencing. In fact, as was testified earlier, the first investment that Canada Soccer made in a league was in the National Women’s Soccer League. For almost nine or 10 years, as I recall, we subsidized the compensation of our national team players in that league. That league occurred before the arrangement of CSB and the CPL.
Let me also clarify that Canada Soccer does not own, operate or run leagues. What we do is sanction leagues. Private investors come in. We have a minimum standard in terms of what is required to launch a league, and then there are investors. The sequencing is actually our investment in the NWSL for approximately nine or 10 years. Then the CPL came into play, which, yes, is a men's league, but that was also as a precursor for our bid to host the men's World Cup in 2026.
Then there's the opportunity we've found at Canada Soccer to now prioritize the development of a women's league. We appointed a head of women's professional soccer at Canada Soccer, so that she can liaise with private investors and so that there is a smooth transition to the sanctioning that will be necessary for the proposed new women's league, where there is one group of investors—one Project 8 group—that is expecting to kick a ball in a couple of years' time.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to start off by saying as a former soccer coach how important it is for Canada Soccer to be transparent, how important it is for Canada Soccer to ensure that children and athletes are safe, and how important it is for Canada Soccer to reflect fundamental Canadian values.
We saw with Hockey Canada an inability or an unwillingness to answer key questions. I'm disturbed by the fact that Mr. Housefather's direct questions around salary and compensation have not been answered by our witnesses.
I find disturbing the allegations of six- or seven-figure incomes when you think that parents right across the country are paying into Canada Soccer programs and expect that Canada Soccer will be transparent in its finances and ensure that their kids are safe.
I want to go beyond the allegations around the salaries to allegations around gifts.
I want to ask you this, Mr. Bontis. What is the total value of the gifts that you've received from all sources in the past year?
:
I'm going to cut you off there. I think we would agree that $11,000 is a lot more than $250.
Can you confirm, as well, that when you travel, you travel business class?
We've had testimony to the effect that our athletes, who do an extraordinary job, were in the back of the plane in regular class, while our administrators were travelling business class.
When you travel, do you travel business class?
:
Given that I'm no longer with Canada Soccer, I don't know what should stay or shouldn't stay.
I can tell you that it is a monumental task to be president of this organization, even if it is a volunteer position. I appreciate the spirit in which that rule was put in place—way before my time—which was that you probably needed some experience as a director or as a vice-president.
I can also tell you that including me, the previous president before me, Victor, and then the previous president before Victor, going back now maybe 15 years, every president was a vice-president prior. I think that's the type of succession planning that's necessary, only from an intellectual capital perspective, not from a political perspective.
I understand that the members have put in a recommendation to the governance committee to remove that stipulation, so that anybody at all who is 18 years old or older with a background check can be nominated for president of Canada Soccer starting next year.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
I'll start with Nick Bontis.
For full disclosure, Nick, we go back many years, of course, in Hamilton. In my years at CHCH, you were a main business commentator related to your role at McMaster University. I don't know if you still play the same role, but Bontis on Business was a regular segment on CHCH.
We've spoken over the years also about your involvement in soccer. I have to say that it was with great disappointment that I heard at this committee some of the comments that Christine Sinclair heard from you, in part because you're also involved at the local level, in the smaller clubs and with the kids who are coming up.
The young girls who are playing soccer on Hamilton Mountain and getting together at Mohawk Sports Park look up to people like Christine Sinclair. This is someone who is at the top of her game in the world. She is a hero to so many Canadians.
What message do you think it sends to those young kids playing soccer when they see someone who is at the top of her game still feeling disrespected by the board at Canada Soccer?
:
In full disclosure, it's great to see and interact with you again, and I appreciate the question.
As I mentioned in my opening statement, I regret that statement. Christine Sinclair was one of the first athletes I met when I entered Canada Soccer in 2012. In fact, I was the head of delegation in their preparation tour for the Olympics.
I want to share this memory with you, because it still resonates with me today. I believe that the greatest moment in football history in our country was when Christine Sinclair scored a hat trick in the semifinals at the Olympics that summer. It was a beacon of light for me. Without getting into the details of the game, I think we remember a six-second goalkeeping rule by the Norwegian referee, but we'll put that aside.
In all the interactions I had with Christine from that moment on, I tried to do my best to speak to her whenever I had a free moment, just to tell her how much she meant to me. I had the great opportunity, as vice-president and as president, to present Christine with many awards—the greatest goal scorer in international soccer history being one of them—including for the achievements at the Olympics.
To answer your question, yes, it's regrettable. I am not only a Hamiltonian. I am a coach. I was a local youth coach in Hamilton. I tried to instill the values that are important as a coach. I can tell you that I take that role very seriously. I coached very young kids—seven, eight, nine and 10 years old—in the time I was a coach.
:
Thanks, Nick. I appreciate it.
It is too bad, considering that you have that respect for Christine Sinclair, that she did not feel respected by you.
I would like to move on, in the couple of minutes I have left, to the situation of Bob Birarda in Canada Soccer. This is something we've heard about in other sports. Predators face accusations. They leave their organization without being fully investigated, move to another part of the country and continue to teach. This is someone who first faced allegations in the mid-2000s, but wasn't convicted until just recently. He was allowed to continue coaching soccer.
What has Canada Soccer done to prevent this type of thing from happening again?
In terms of the specifics of the Birarda case back in 2008, the executive committee, which is a committee of eight people from the board, considered the allegation against Mr. Birarda as it related to inappropriate texting. The matter was investigated by an independent ombudswoman and legal counsel.
There were two conference calls that dealt with this matter. One was to suspend Mr. Birarda. The second was to hire an investigator.
The second conference call, weeks later, dealt with the recommendation by the investigator, through our president, to confirm that there would be no police undertaking in this matter, unfortunately. To your point, there was also the texting that was confirmed to be inappropriate for a coach-player relationship. Also, the identity of the players or player involved, as well as the details of the texting, were not revealed to the committee because of privacy and confidentiality issues.
With respect to the specifics of coaching, up until recently and going back to 2008, the only risk management tool that a club had was a police background check. If you passed the police background check, you could coach in Canada. Unfortunately, that is not a system that is tenable, to your point.
I think that recently there have been changes. I think Canada Soccer can speak to that. Some of those changes were started, in effect, in 2012 under the guidelines of Sport Canada. These are some of the things that I think the whole industry of player welfare and safe sport need to change, so that you can't just rely on a police background check. If the police do not interact with them or do what needs to be done, obviously this person—
:
Going back to 2008, and as the McLaren report outlined, we dealt with the sole allegation of his inappropriate texting at a national team camp in Vancouver. That was the process of that investigation.
With respect to what he was subsequently charged with, which came to light in 2019-20.... Those predated his time at the Canadian Soccer Association. He committed those offences while working at the grassroots or at private academies in British Columbia. In 2008, nobody was aware. I was certainly not aware of anything Mr. Birarda had done previously; nor—to my knowledge—was our committee aware of it. By the looks of it, neither were the investigators.
This didn't, unfortunately, come forward until the victims came forward in 2019-20, which led to the police being engaged and, ultimately, Mr. Birarda's being charged.
There have been questions with regard to salary and where you fly on an airplane. All these questions are technically yours and yours, alone...to have this information. I think what instigates the questions, though.... It's not necessarily that the seat number is important, but rather what it insinuates or symbolizes.
That is to say, there is this overall picture that, I believe, is being painted with regard to Canada Soccer that shows a couple of things.
One, there is this enormous elitism at the top of the organization. There is this leadership group that is out of touch with the reality of the players—in particular, the players on the women's team. There is this notion, or this understanding, that those at the top are being put before the players themselves, which is a problem. It's a problem for the players, fans and Canadians. It's a problem for the sport.
Further to that, I think the other thing being communicated to the public is that this is an organization run by men, for men. The women are not being fairly compensated. This comes down not only to equal pay but also to equal opportunity, equal treatment and equal resources. We have an organization run by an elite few, who are men. They run this organization for men, and it is to the disadvantage of the players as a whole, but in particular of the women. That's a problem.
We have a deal signed between Canada Soccer and Canadian Soccer Business. When we look at this deal, it smells fishy. I think that's where these questions come into play today. What we want to know are the terms of this deal, but there has been a refusal to be transparent about those terms.
We know a few things based on what we've heard from players and what we've seen reported in the media. We know this is a deal that was signed for 10 years. We know there's the opportunity to renew this deal for another 10 years. We know there was very little transparency and, therefore, zero accountability with regard to this deal. We're confused as to why this deal was signed, because it just doesn't make sense.
My first question is this: Mr. Bontis, did you gain in any way, personally or professionally, from signing this deal?
I'm going to continue on Rachel's line of questioning.
On this deal, Mr. Bontis, you stated that there was an opportunity to renegotiate the base amount, which is essentially a guaranteed amount, but it can't increase. It's basically that despite the men's team qualifying for the World Cup and the women's team winning the Olympics, you get no bump in the amounts that you negotiated for the first 10 years. Then, in the second 10 years, if you don't agree on an amount with CSB, there's a fixed amount that's in the contract that's barely an escalation from what was in the first 10 years.
This is opposed to in the United States, where they had a similar deal, and it went up to $30 million at the end. Here, you have almost no escalation. What Rachel said is actually the case. It's an unbelievable deal. We cannot understand how anybody could sign an agreement that fixes pricing for 20 years, no matter how well the soccer teams do.
Let me ask a different question, if it's okay, Mr. Bontis.
I understand that you didn't sign the deal. Mr. Reed signed the deal. At the last meeting, I had a number of questions about when this agreement was approved.
The representatives of Canada Soccer told us that it was approved in March 2018. I pointed them to a board meeting in December 2018 where it was clear that the deal had not been approved because the board had revisited...the deal was being renegotiated and the board had lots of things and mandates to get to the negotiating committee. They said, well, there was a conference call that happened later in December that wasn't minuted. Then the agreement was signed as of January 1.
Mr. Bontis, do you remember on what date Mr. Reed signed the agreement?
:
That's a great question.
Madam Chair, the fundamental difference between the women's national team and the men's national team, upon my arrival as president, was that the women's team had a collective bargaining agreement already in place—they're currently in the process of renewing the collective bargaining agreement—whereas the men did not. They negotiated based on camps.
To promise pay equity now complicates the negotiation, because all three parties—the men's team, the women's team and Canada Soccer—have to come together for an agreement.
It was only upon further communication with the men that I found out that they'd created a players' association and legal representation only on Labour Day of 2022. That's when I found out.
The truth of the matter is that the women had a collective bargaining agreement and were registered as a players' association through the Province of Ontario. The men had not been, and only in September did they do that, which then allowed us, as Canada Soccer, to be able to negotiate.
In good spirit, all three parties—the men's team, the women's team and Canada Soccer—have continued communications since September.
Last month I left, but my understanding is that those communications continue, as is obvious from Sean's testimony.
:
I will, Madam Chair. Thank you.
I want to just come back briefly to the Bob Birarda case, because I think it's important for Canadians who are watching to understand what happened.
Bob Birarda was the U-20 national women's coach until 2008, and in November 2022 he was sent to prison for the sexual assault of underage players.
In 2008 Canada Soccer basically spun it as a mutual decision to part ways when it was announced that he was departing as the U-20 national coach. They explained that the move had to do with Birarda wanting time to attend to his own health and family, and they wished him well in the future.
The independent McLaren report, published in July 2022, states that the communication “that characterized Birarda's departure as being in the mutual interest of both parties without so much as addressing the harassment was a gross mischaracterisation of the circumstances and failed the victims of the harassment, their teammates, and the organisation as a whole.”
There was a robust harassment policy on the books of Canada Soccer when complaints were raised, but the executive failed to follow it at several levels, which are damningly delineated in the McLaren report.
McLaren also found that there was only a small cadre of individuals at Canada Soccer who even knew about the complaints. Other executives on the board were kept in the dark. No trace of the case exists in any minutes. A staff member interviewed as part of the McLaren investigation said, “This is what troubles me...that there are no paper trails.” They also said, “Everything was held behind closed doors and there is no record of what was done.”
In 2021 FIFA became interested in the handling of the sexual misconduct complaint, and Canada Soccer carefully altered the story, claiming the entire board was involved in the swift termination of Birarda, and that obviously wasn't the case.
Mr. Montagliani, when you were asked by the ethics committee at FIFA about this mischaracterizing message, you said that you had nothing to do with it, or you couldn't remember being a part of it.
Is that true?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm going to change the subject for two minutes.
As I said, it's certainly not to give our guests a break, given that they have a lot of information to disclose.
I want to introduce a notice of motion relating to freedom of expression.
For some time, we have increasingly been seeing the weakening of the culture and how it is often the first victim of freedom of expression. Whether it's on social media, in the media generally, or in civil society, people are increasingly afraid to express themselves freely, for fear of being cancelled. I think this is a very troubling.
I want to take this time to point out that books have been burned in the schools, that a cultural treasure like Michelangelo's David has been censored in Florida, among other things. This is a trend that is undeniably moving north. Recently, a reading of Michèle Lalonde's poem Speak White was even forbidden in a classroom in Trois-Rivières, because it contained the N-word in an artistic context.
The motion proposes that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of six meetings regarding the protection of freedom of expression and the means the government should have at its disposal to ensure its exercise.
I hope that we will be able to debate this motion at an upcoming meeting of the committee.
Thank you.
:
Okay. I would like to ask, through you, Madam Chair, that Canada Soccer make that evaluation available to us.
I will say this. Across the country, we have parents who are providing money that goes through to Canada Soccer. We have not seen transparency. The words that Christine Sinclair spoke before this committee on March 9, I think, ring true: “Canada Soccer’s approach [on finances] has reflected a culture of secrecy and obstruction.”
I think it's fair to say that this is a problem in terms of the finances and the lack of answers we've had today. There's also a concern around the allegations of sexual abuse and how Canada Soccer treats these issues.
[Translation]
I hope we are now going to pursue our intention to get to the bottom of things...