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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 55
Wednesday, March 1, 2023, 3:04 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Televised
Presiding
Hon. Bardish Chagger, Chair (Liberal)

• Damien C. Kurek for Blaine Calkins (Conservative)
• John Brassard for John Nater (Conservative)
• John Brassard for Luc Berthold (Conservative)
• Christine Normandin for Marie-Hélène Gaudreau (Bloc Québécois)
• Marilène Gill for Marie-Hélène Gaudreau (Bloc Québécois)
• Richard Lehoux for Blaine Calkins (Conservative)
Library of Parliament
• Andre Barnes, Analyst
• Laurence Brosseau, Analyst
Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
• Cindy Termorshuizen, Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
• Shawn Tupper, Deputy Minister
Privy Council Office
• Jody Thomas, National Security and Intelligence Advisor
Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task Force
• Tara Denham, Director General, Office of Human Rights, Freedoms and Inclusion, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
• Adam Fisher, Director General, Intelligence Assessments, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
• Greg O'Hayon, Acting Director General, Strategic Intelligence, Federal Policing Intelligence and International Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
• Adriana Poloz, Executive Director, Intelligence and International Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
• Alia Tayyeb, Deputy Chief of Signals Intelligence, Communications Security Establishment
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(a)(vi) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 22, 2022, the committee resumed its study of the foreign election interference.

Jody Thomas made a statement and, with Shawn Tupper and Cindy Termorshuizen, answered questions.

At 4:01 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:08 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Alia Tayyeb made a statement and, with Tara Denham and Adam Fisher, answered questions.

At 5:10 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:31 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Motion

Michael Cooper moved, — That, given further media reports from Global News, revealing additional shocking revelations regarding Beijing’s strategy to interfere and influence Canada’s democratic institutions, the committee, in relation to its study of foreign interference in elections,

(a) hold a third meeting during each House sitting week to accommodate this study, in addition to its meetings concerning its orders of reference related to the Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act;

(b) hold at least three meetings, each two hours in length, dedicated to this study, on each House adjournment week;

(c) invite Katie Telford, Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, to appear alone for two hours by herself, within two weeks of the adoption of this motion, provided that she be sworn or affirmed;

(d) invite Jeremy Broadhurst, Liberal Party of Canada Campaign Director for the 2019 general election;

(e) invite Morris Rosenberg, author of the independent assessment of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol (CEIPP) for the 2021 general election, as mandated by the Cabinet Directive on the CEIPP; and

(f) order the production of all memoranda, briefing notes, e-mails, records of conversations, and any other relevant documents, including any drafts, which are in the possession of any government department or agency, including the Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task Force, CEIPP, any Minister’s Office, and the Prime Minister’s Office, containing information concerning efforts by, or on behalf of, foreign governments or other foreign state actors to interfere in the 2019 and 2021 general elections, including the documents which were quoted in the various Globe and Mail and Global News reports on this subject-matter and, for greater certainty, those regarding Canadian Security Intelligence Service warnings to “senior Liberal Party staff” in September 2019 regarding Beijing’s foreign interference in the Liberal nomination for the riding of Don Valley North, provided that

(i) these documents be deposited without redaction with the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, in both official languages and within three weeks of the adoption of this order,

(ii) a copy of the documents shall also be deposited with the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, in both official languages, within three weeks of the adoption of this Order, with any proposed redaction of information which, in the government’s opinion, could reasonably be expected to compromise the identities of employees or sources or intelligence-collecting methods of Canadian or allied intelligence agencies,

(iii) the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel shall promptly notify the Committee whether the Office is satisfied that the documents were produced as ordered, and, if not, the Chair shall be instructed to present forthwith, on behalf of the Committee, a report to the House outlining the material facts of the situation,

(iv) the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel shall assess the redactions proposed by the government, pursuant to subparagraph (ii), to determine whether the Office agrees that the proposed redactions conform with the criteria set out in subparagraph (ii) and

(A) if it agrees, it shall provide the documents, as redacted by the government pursuant to subparagraph (ii), to the clerk of the committee, or

(B) if it disagrees with some or all of the proposed redactions, it shall provide a copy of the documents, redacted in the manner the Office determines would conform with the criteria set out in paragraph (ii), together with a report indicating the number, extent and nature of the government's proposed redactions which were disagreed with, to the clerk of the committee, and

(v) the clerk of the committee shall cause the documents, provided by the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel pursuant to subparagraph (iv), to be distributed to the members of the Committee and to be published on the committee’s website forthwith upon receipt.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Ryan Turnbull moved, — That the motion be amended by deleting paragraphs (a), (b), (c), (d), and replacing the words in paragraph (f) with the following “the committee order the production of all memoranda, briefing notes, and any other relevant documents, which are in the possession of government departments or agencies containing information concerning efforts by, or on behalf of, foreign governments or other foreign state actors to interfere in the 2011, 2015, 2019 and 2021 general elections, provided that, (i) the Departments and Agencies tasked with gathering these documents apply redactions according to the Access to Information and Privacy Act, (ii) these redacted documents be deposited as a complete package as soon as possible with the Clerk of the committee to be distributed to all members of the committee in both official languages” .

At 6:05 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 6:10 p.m., the sitting resumed.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Ryan Turnbull and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Sherry Romanado, Ruby Sahota, Ryan Turnbull — 5;

NAYS: Luc Berthold, Michael Cooper, Marilène Gill, Peter Julian, Damien C. Kurek, John Nater — 6.

Amendment

Peter Julian moved, — That the motion be amended by deleting (b) and replacing the words in paragraphs (c) and (d) with the following:

(b) invite the following individuals to appear before the committee:

i. Katie Telford and Tauscha Michaud, Chiefs of Staff to the Prime Minister and the former Leader of the Official Opposition

ii. Jeremy Broadhurst, Azam Ishmael, Hamish Marshall and Walied Solomon, national campaign directors for the Liberal Party of Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada during the 2019 and 2021 federal election campaigns

iii. Jenny Byrne, Leader of the Official Opposition’s senior leadership advisor

And by replacing the words in paragraph (f) with the following, “order the production of all memoranda, briefing notes, and any other relevant documents, which are in the possession of government departments or agencies containing information concerning efforts by, or on behalf of, foreign governments or other foreign state actors to interfere in the 2011, 2015, 2019 and 2021 general elections, provided that

i. the Departments and Agencies tasked with gathering these documents apply redactions according to the Access to Information and Privacy Act,

ii. these redacted documents be deposited as a complete package within two weeks of the adoption of this order with the Clerk of the committee to be distributed to all members of the committee in both official languages, and

iii. unredacted copies of all documents referenced in this paragraph be referred within three weeks to the ad hoc committee of parliamentarians which was agreed by the Government House Leader, the Official Opposition House Leader, and the House Leaders of the Bloc Quebecois and New Democratic Party on October 31, 2022, to review Public Health Agency of Canada documents related to the transfer of Ebola and Henipah viruses to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in March 2019, provided that those documents are to be reviewed and handled in the same manner as the documents originally referred to that committee”.

Debate arose thereon.

Motion

Ruby Sahota moved, — That the committee do now adjourn.

The question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Sherry Romanado, Ruby Sahota, Ryan Turnbull — 5;

NAYS: Luc Berthold, John Brassard, Michael Cooper, Marilène Gill, Peter Julian, Damien C. Kurek — 6.

At 7:22 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 7:32 p.m., the sitting resumed.

The debabte resumed.

Subamendment

Michael Cooper moved, — That the amendment be amended by:

(a) Replacing the proposed new paragraph (b) with the following: “(b) invite Katie Telford, Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, to appear alone for 4 hours, within two weeks of the adoption of this motion, provided that she be sworn or affirmed; (c) invite the following individuals to appear before the committee on a two-hour panel: Tauscha Michaud, Jeremy Broadhurst, Azam Ishmael, Hamish Marshall, Walied Soliman, Jenni Byrne, Jennifer Howard, and Anne McGrath" and

(b) Deleting the paragraph in the amendment concerning paragraph (f) of the main motion.

Debate arose thereon.

Motion

Peter Julian moved, — That the committee do now adjourn.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Greg Fergus, Mark Gerretsen, Jennifer O'Connell, Sherry Romanado, Ruby Sahota, Ryan Turnbull — 6;

NAYS: John Brassard, Michael Cooper, Peter Julian, Damien C. Kurek, Christine Normandin — 5.

At 9:00 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Miriam Burke,
Sophia Nickel
Clerks of the committee