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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 127
Thursday, October 10, 2024, 11:05 a.m. to 1:01 p.m.
Webcast
Presiding
Ben Carr, Chair (Liberal)

• Ziad Aboultaif for Eric Duncan (Conservative)
• Ziad Aboultaif for Luc Berthold (Conservative)
• Pam Damoff for Mona Fortier (Liberal)
• Alex Ruff for Michael Cooper (Conservative)
• Alex Ruff for Luc Berthold (Conservative)
• Patrick Weiler for Mark Gerretsen (Liberal)
House of Commons
• Michelle Legault, Legislative Clerk
• Jean-François Pagé, Legislative Clerk
 
Library of Parliament
• Laurence Brosseau, Analyst
• Andre Barnes, Analyst
Canadian Security Intelligence Service
• Tracy S., Chief, Strategic Policy
Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
• Justin Chan, Director, Counter-Terrorism Policy
Privy Council Office
• Sean Jorgensen, Director General and Chief Security Officer
Treasury Board Secretariat
• Adam Hatfield, Executive Director, Policy on Government Security
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
• Jeffrey Beaulac, Acting Chief Security Officer, Departmental Security
Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, June 5, 2024, the committee resumed consideration of Bill C-377, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (need to know).

The witnesses answered questions.

The committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

The Chair called Clause 1.

At 11:08 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 11:10 a.m., the meeting resumed.

On Clause 1,

Alex Ruff moved, — That Bill C-377, in Clause 1, be amended by replacing lines 15 and 16 on page 2 with the following:

“eration of their application, deemed to need that security clearance.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Alex Ruff and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Blaine Calkins, Michael Cooper, Pam Damoff, Terry Duguid, Eric Duncan, Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Lindsay Mathyssen, Sherry Romanado, Alex Ruff, Ryan Turnbull, Patrick Weiler — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

Alex Ruff moved, — That Bill C-377, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 16 on page 2 the following:

“(1.1) An application referred to in subsection (1) is to be processed and managed as though it were made by a person appointed by a minister under subsection 128(1) of the Public Service Employment Act.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Alex Ruff and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Blaine Calkins, Michael Cooper, Eric Duncan, Alex Ruff — 4;

NAYS: Pam Damoff, Terry Duguid, Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Lindsay Mathyssen, Sherry Romanado, Ryan Turnbull, Patrick Weiler — 7.

Terry Duguid moved, — That Bill C-377, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 20 on page 2 the following:

“(3) A member or former member of the Senate or the House of Commons must not knowingly disclose information to which they were given access under a security clearance, except if the disclosure is made during an in camera meeting of a committee of the Senate or the House of Commons, or of a joint committee, and every individual in attendance has also been granted the necessary security clearance by the Government of Canada.”

Debate arose thereon.

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment admissible.

Whereupon, Alex Ruff appealed the decision of the Chair.

The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was sustained on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Terry Duguid, Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Lindsay Mathyssen, Sherry Romanado, Ryan Turnbull, Patrick Weiler — 7;

NAYS: Blaine Calkins, Michael Cooper, Eric Duncan, Alex Ruff — 4.

At 11:30 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 11:46 a.m., the meeting resumed.

Lindsay Mathyssen moved, — That the amendment be amended

(a) by adding the words “through section 13.1 of the Parliament of Canada Act” after the words “under a security clearance”

(b) by replacing the words “an in camera meeting of a committee of the Senate or the House of Commons, or of a joint committee, and every individual in attendance has also been granted the necessary security clearance by the Government of Canada.” with the following: “a special committee of the Senate or the House of Commons, or of a joint committee, under an agreement with all house leaders of recognized parties and complies with established procedures and practices for the secure handling, storage, transportation, transmission and destruction of information or documents, including any requirement found in a Treasury Board policy, guideline or directive.”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 12:15 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 12:38 p.m., the meeting resumed.

At 1:01 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Christine Holke
Clerk of the committee