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SECU Committee Meeting

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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 118
Thursday, September 19, 2024, 3:48 p.m. to 5:48 p.m.
Televised
Presiding
Ron McKinnon, Chair (Liberal)

• Dan Albas for Glen Motz (Conservative)
• Paul Chiang for Salma Zahid (Liberal)
• Melissa Lantsman for Glen Motz (Conservative)
Library of Parliament
• Alexsandra Ferland, Analyst
• Moly Robichaud, Law Intern
Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the clerk of the committee presided over the election of a vice-chair.

Motion

Doug Shipley moved, — That Raquel Dancho be elected First Vice-Chair of the committee.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

• Hon. Marc Miller, P.C., M.P., Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
• Michael Duheme, Commissioner
Canada Border Services Agency
• Ted Gallivan, Executive Vice-President
Department of Citizenship and Immigration
• Harpreet S. Kochhar, Deputy Minister
• Pemi Gill, Assistant Deputy Minister
• Soyoung Park, Assistant Deputy Minister, Asylum and Refugee Resettlement
• Aiesha Zafar, Assistant Deputy Minister, Migration Integrity
Canadian Security Intelligence Service
• Vanessa Lloyd, Interim Director
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, August 13, 2024, the committee resumed its study of the review of the foiled terrorist plot in Toronto and of the security screening process for permanent residence and citizenship application.

The Minister made a opening statement and, with Aiesha Zafar, answered questions.

At 4:43 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 4:49 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The committee continued its study with new witnesses.

Harpreet S. Kochhar, Aiesha Zafar, Michael Duheme, Ted Gallivan and Vanessa Lloyd answered questions.

The committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to committee business.

Motion

Doug Shipley moved, — Given that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) have arrested an additional alleged Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) terrorist, who was preparing to carry out a massacre targeting the Jewish community in New York City, the committee expand its Review of the Foiled Terrorist Plot in Toronto and of the Security Screening Process for Permanent Residence and Citizenship Application by no less than eight meetings to further examine how alleged ISIS terrorists are able to enter and reside in Canada; that the Minister of Public Safety and his officials be invited to reappear for no less than two hours; that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) officials, Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officials, RCMP officials, and Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) officials be invited to reappear before the committee; and that no more than one Minister, agency or department testify at a time.

Debate arose thereon.

At 4:48 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 4:49 p.m., the meeting resumed.

Amendment

Jennifer O'Connell moved, — That the motion be amended by deleting the words “by no less than eight meetings to further examine how alleged ISIS terrorists are able to enter and reside in Canada; that the Minister of Public Safety and his officials be invited to reappear for no less than two hours; that IRCC officials, CBSA officials, RCMP officials, and CSIS officials be invited to reappear before the committee; and that no more than one Minister, agency or department testify at a time.”

And that the motion be amended by adding after the words “Application” the following: “includes questions around this more recent arrest in its meetings.”.

At 5:00 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 5:07 p.m., the meeting resumed.

Debate arose thereon.

Subamendment

Raquel Dancho moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “its meetings” the following: “and invites both the Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Immigration and Citizenship to return for 2 hours respectively with officials once the investigative findings have progressed.”.

At 5:17 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 5:28 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The question was put on the subamendment of Raquel Dancho and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 0; NAYS: 11.

Subamendment

Raquel Dancho moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “its meetings” the following: “; that as part of this study both the Minister of Public Safety and officials, and the Minister of Immigration and officials reappear for no less than two hours each separately upon the conclusion of the investigation by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC), or within 28 days of the adoption of this motion, whichever is sooner.”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Raquel Dancho and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

The question was put on the amendment of Jennifer O'Connell and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Questioning of the witnesses resumed.

Motion

By unanimous consent, Pam Damoff moved, — That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and given recent charges by the United States Department of Justice against RT (the Russian state media broadcaster) in a scheme to funnel $10M to a media organization in North America; and that Canadian companies and individuals have been found to be connected to this Russian propaganda effort,

The committee invite the following witnesses to testify for no less two hours on their participation in Russian-backed interference and far-right disinformation campaigns intended to manipulate the Canadian public:

  1. Lauren Chen
  2. Liam Donovan
  3. Lauren Southern
The committee also invite concerned civil society representatives and disinformation experts, to further examine the risks of this concerning activity:

  1. Marcus Kolga, Journalist
  2. Aaron Shull, Managing Director at Centre for International Governance Innovation
  3. Wesley Wark, Senior Fellow at Centre for International Governance Innovation
  4. Stephanie Carvin, Professor at Carleton University
  5. Thomas Juneau, Professor at University of Ottawa
  6. Shelly Bruce, Former Chief of the Communications Security Establishment
  7. Richard Fadden, Former Director of CSIS
  8. Guillaume Sirois, Representative of the Russian Canadian Democratic Alliance
  9. Mark Power, Representative of the Russian Canadian Democratic Alliance
  10. Alexandra Chyczij, President of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress
And that the committee report its findings to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government table a comprehensive response to the report

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Alistair MacGregor moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “concerning activity” the following: “, without being limited to the following list :”.

The question was put on the amendment of Alistair MacGregor and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

The question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Pam Damoff, Raquel Dancho, Peter Fragiskatos, Iqwinder Gaheer, Dane Lloyd, Alistair MacGregor, Kristina Michaud, Jennifer O'Connell, Doug Shipley, Salma Zahid — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and given recent charges by the United States Department of Justice against RT (the Russian state media broadcaster) in a scheme to funnel $10M to a media organization in North America; and that Canadian companies and individuals have been found to be connected to this Russian propaganda effort,

The committee invite the following witnesses to testify for no less two hours on their participation in Russian-backed interference and far-right disinformation campaigns intended to manipulate the Canadian public:

  1. Lauren Chen
  2. Liam Donovan
  3. Lauren Southern

The committee also invite concerned civil society representatives and disinformation experts, to further examine the risks of this concerning activity, without being limited to the following list:

  1. Marcus Kolga, Journalist
  2. Aaron Shull, Managing Director at Centre for International Governance Innovation
  3. Wesley Wark, Senior Fellow at Centre for International Governance Innovation
  4. Stephanie Carvin, Professor at Carleton University
  5. Thomas Juneau, Professor at University of Ottawa
  6. Shelly Bruce, Former Chief of the Communications Security Establishment
  7. Richard Fadden, Former Director of CSIS
  8. Guillaume Sirois, Representative of the Russian Canadian Democratic Alliance
  9. Mark Power, Representative of the Russian Canadian Democratic Alliance
  10. Alexandra Chyczij, President of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress

And that the committee report its findings to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government table a comprehensive response to the report

At 5:48 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Simon Larouche
Clerk of the committee