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INDU Committee Meeting

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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 146
Thursday, November 21, 2024, 8:17 a.m. to 10:17 a.m.
Webcast
Presiding
Joël Lightbound, Chair (Liberal)

Library of Parliament
• Isaac Doucette, Analyst
• Dana Fan, Analyst
• Alexandre Lafrenière, Analyst
The committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to committee business.

It was agreed, — That the proposed supplementary budget in the amount of $18,000.00, for the study of credit card practices and regulations in Canada, be adopted.

Motion

Ryan Turnbull moved, — Given that governments have an economic and social incentive to act on climate change;
Given that climate change could lead to devastating impacts on Canadian businesses and industry, with climate damages and economic losses of up to 35 billion dollars per year by 2030, and $865-billion by 2100 or six times the revenues of Canada's most populous provinces, in the absence of climate action;
Given that the energy, forestry, mining, agricultural and fisheries sectors will be particularly affected, putting many local economies at risk, given these sectors contribute to the economies of hundreds of municipalities and communities across the country;
Given that climate change, in turn, may impact labour markets, employment and wage growth, particularly in the absence of climate action, and;
That industry supports industrial carbon pricing as the backbone of decarbonization across the country, spurring growth, especially in lower intensive sectors of the economy, job growth and greener projects, and; that industry has called on governments to work together to strengthen Canada’s industrial pricing system;
That the committee allocate no less than two meetings to study the topic of industrial carbon pricing, as well as the broader industrial and labour market impacts of climate change.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Rick Perkins moved, — That the motion be amended by deleting the words “Given that governments have an economic and social incentive to act on climate change;
Given that climate change could lead to devastating impacts on Canadian businesses and industry, with climate damages and economic losses of up to 35 billion dollars per year by 2030, and $865-billion by 2100 or six times the revenues of Canada's most populous provinces, in the absence of climate action;
Given that the energy, forestry, mining, agricultural and fisheries sectors will be particularly affected, putting many local economies at risk, given these sectors contribute to the economies of hundreds of municipalities and communities across the country;
Given that climate change, in turn, may impact labour markets, employment and wage growth, particularly in the absence of climate action, and;
That industry supports industrial carbon pricing as the backbone of decarbonization across the country, spurring growth, especially in lower intensive sectors of the economy, job growth and greener projects, and; that industry has called on governments to work together to strengthen Canada’s industrial pricing system;”

And by adding after the words “That the committee allocate no less than two meetings” the following “and that these meetings begin once the committee has set its schedule and that appropriate timing be agreed to”.

Debate arose thereon.

Subamendment

By unanimous consent, Brian Masse moved, — That the motion be amended by adding the words “Given that governments have an economic and social incentive to act on climate change;”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Brian Masse and it was negatived.

The question was put on the amendment of Rick Perkins and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Bernard Généreux, Jeremy Patzer, Rick Perkins, Michelle Rempel Garner — 4;

NAYS: Chandra Arya, Vance Badawey, Iqwinder Gaheer, Irek Kusmierczyk, Brian Masse, Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Ryan Turnbull — 7.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Brian Masse moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “the pricing system;” the following: “Given the Liberal Party of Canada, as government, made the single largest economic investment in carbon pollution buying a leaky pipeline that continues to expand emissions, increase debt for the public, and free market manipulation;”.

The question was put on the amendment of Brian Masse and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Brian Masse, Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay — 2;

NAYS: Chandra Arya, Vance Badawey, Iqwinder Gaheer, Bernard Généreux, Irek Kusmierczyk, Jeremy Patzer, Rick Perkins, Michelle Rempel Garner, Ryan Turnbull — 9.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Michelle Rempel Garner moved, — That the motion be amended following the words “Given that governments have an economic and social incentive to act on climate change” the following words be deleted:
“Given that climate change could lead to devastating impacts on Canadian businesses and industry, with climate damages and economic losses of up to 35 billion dollars per year by 2030, and $865 billion by 2100 or six times the revenues of Canada's most populous provinces, in the absence of climate action;
Given that the energy, forestry, mining, agricultural and fisheries sectors will be particularly affected, putting many local economies at risk, given these sectors contribute to the economies of hundreds of municipalities and communities across the country;
Given that climate change, in turn, may impact labour markets, employment and wage growth, particularly in the absence of climate action, and;
That industry supports industrial carbon pricing as the backbone of decarbonization across the country, spurring growth, especially in lower intensive sectors of the economy, job growth and greener projects, and; that industry has called on governments to work together to strengthen Canada’s industrial pricing system;”

And, by adding the words “and consumer” after the words “That the committee allocate no less than two meetings to study the topic of industrial”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 9:05 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 9:11 a.m., the meeting resumed.

Subamendment

Ryan Turnbull moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding after the words “Given that governments have an economic and social incentive to act on climate change” the following: “and given it leads to impacts on labour markets, employment and wage growth, particularly in the absence of climate action;”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Ryan Turnbull and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Chandra Arya, Vance Badawey, Iqwinder Gaheer, Bernard Généreux, Irek Kusmierczyk, Brian Masse, Jeremy Patzer, Rick Perkins, Michelle Rempel Garner, Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Ryan Turnbull — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Michelle Rempel Garner, as amended, and it was agreed to.

After debate, the question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

Given that governments have an economic and social incentive to act on climate change and given it leads to impacts on labour markets, employment and wage growth, particularly in the absence of climate action;
That the committee allocate no less than two meetings to study the topic of industrial and consumer carbon pricing, as well as the broader industrial and labour market impacts of climate change.

Motion

Rick Perkins moved, — That, in relation to the Government of Canada’s recent $2.1-billion loan to Telesat, the committee agree to hold two meetings examining the feasibility and business case justifying this deal, over two meetings, within 14 days following the adoption of this motion, and that the committee agree to invite the following witnesses:

(a) Francis Bilodeau, Acting Deputy Minister of ISED; and
(b) Daniel Goldberg, the CEO of Telesat Canada.

Debate arose thereon.

It was agreed, — That the motion be amended by replacing the words “(a) Francis Bilodeau, Acting Deputy Minister of ISED” with the words “(a) Philip Jennings, Deputy Minister of ISED”.

On motion of Ryan Turnbull, it was agreed, — That the motion be amended by deleting the words “within 14 days following the adoption of this motion”.

Amendment

Bernard Généreux moved, — That the motion be amended by adding the words “following the completion of the study on the Potential anti-competitive behavior in Canada and e-transfer ecosystem” after the words “business case justifying this deal”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Bernard Généreux and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Bernard Généreux, Brian Masse, Jeremy Patzer, Rick Perkins, Michelle Rempel Garner, Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay — 6;

NAYS: Chandra Arya, Vance Badawey, Iqwinder Gaheer, Irek Kusmierczyk, Ryan Turnbull — 5.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

That, in relation to the Government of Canada’s recent $2.1-billion loan to Telesat, the committee agree to hold two meetings examining the feasibility and business case justifying this deal, following the completion of the study on the Potential anti-competitive behavior in Canada and e-transfer ecosystem, over two meetings and that the committee agree to invite the following witnesses:

(a) Philip Jennings, Deputy Minister of ISED; and
(b) Daniel Goldberg, the Chief Executive Officer of Telesat Canada.

Motion

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay moved, — Whereas French-speaking 911 emergency service users must have access to fast, efficient and clear service, regardless of the official language in which they speak, in order for their safety to be fully ensured;
Whereas, under the Official Languages Act, citizens enjoy the same rights and services regardless of the official language in which they express themselves, and federal institutions have an obligation to provide services equitably to all citizens;
Considering that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) is the government body responsible for regulating IP telephony, and that the CRTC must therefore resolve problems arising from call localization;
That, pursuant to Section 108(2) of the Regulations, the Committee undertake a study of the difficulties that persist for Francophones in Quebec or from Francophone minority communities in Canada in receiving service in French when they call 911 emergency services because of the locality in which they are located at the time of the call;
That the Committee hold two meetings to hear witnesses and invite them to testify, at the rate of one hour per witness:
• The Commissioner of Official Languages,
• The Department of Public Safety,
• The CRTC, and
• The Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry

And that the Committee report to the House.

Debate arose thereon.

On motion of Bernard Généreux, it was agreed, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “The Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry” the words “that this study be conducted before the end of February, 2025”.

A point of order was raised as to the procedural acceptability of the proposed motion.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

As the subject of the motion relates to telecommunications there is a sufficient connection with competition and communications for it to be admissible.

The question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Brian Masse, Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay — 2;

NAYS: Chandra Arya, Vance Badawey, Iqwinder Gaheer, Bernard Généreux, Irek Kusmierczyk, Jeremy Patzer, Rick Perkins, Michelle Rempel Garner, Ryan Turnbull — 9.

Motion

Jeremy Patzer moved, — That, in relation to the committee's ongoing study of credit card practices, and given various departments have refused to answer questions and produce documentation related to the committee’s ongoing study, the committee therefore order the department to produce:

(a) Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner’s request for any briefing notes and summary documents prepared by the department related to the Government of Canada’s consultation process on reducing interchange fees, including any and all written submissions received by stakeholders;
(b) MP Jean-Denis Garon’s request for all copies of Visa and MasterCard’s initial offer to reduce interchange fees, including any and all counter offers by the department, as well as any and all email exchanges related to these negotiations between Visa, Mastercard, and American Express;
(c) MP Brian Masse’s request for any advise letters or memorandums provided to the Minister on the matter of reducing interchange fees or credit card reductions more broadly;

That these documents be produced to the committee within 14 days following the adoption of this motion, unredacted, and in both official languages.

Debate arose thereon.

By unanimous consent, on motion of Rick Perkins, it was agreed, — That the committee invite Minister François-Philippe Champagne to testify on Supplementary Estimates (B), 2024-25 for two hours by no later than the end of the current supply period.

At 10:17 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Miriam Burke
Clerk of the committee