INDU Committee Meeting
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Minutes of Proceedings
Conservative
Bloc Québécois
NDP
Mark Schaan and Runa Angus answered questions.
Rick Perkins moved, —
That, in relation to its order of reference concerning Bill C-27, An Act to enact the Consumer Privacy Protection Act, the Personal Information and Data Protection Tribunal Act and the Artificial Intelligence and Data Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts, and given that
(i) the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry gave evidence to the Committee on Tuesday, September 26, 2023, stating “I want to put on the table specifically what our government will propose to improve the bill. These are the amendments that we are proposing to the bill”,
(ii) in response to the Minister’s evidence, the Committee, on Thursday, September 28, 2023, ordered the production of “the amendments discussed by the Minister in his opening remarks to the Committee on Tuesday, September 26, 2023”, and
(iii) the Minister’s response to the Committee’s Order refers to “highlighting … areas for amendments in my remarks”, includes an annex providing “detail related to the amendments we would propose”, suggests “Government members would propose amendments” and that “we are ready to work with committee members to develop amendments”, and asserts “My officials are currently working with the Department of Justice to draft these amendments”,
the Committee is deeply concerned about the contradictions in the Minister’s oral and written evidence to the Committee and, therefore,
(a) renews its invitation issued to the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry to appear before the Committee, for at least two hours, provided that if he does not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, the Chair shall be instructed to report to the House forthwith a recommendation that this Committee be empowered to order his appearance from time to time;
(b) a summons do issue for the appearance of Simon Kennedy, Deputy Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development, to appear before the Committee, for at least two hours, at a date and time determined by the Chair, but no later than Thursday, October 19;
(c) orders the Minister, his department and the Department of Justice to produce the draft texts of amendments to Bill C-27 discussed by the Minister, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, no later than Thursday, October 19;
(d) orders the production of (i) the draft speaking notes recommended to the Minister’s office, for the Minister’s use before the Committee, by his department, and (ii) the final version of the speaking notes which the Minister relied upon during his appearance before the Committee, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, prior to the Deputy Minister’s appearance on Thursday, October 19;
(e) orders the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel to produce copies of the texts of any amendments to Bill C-27 drafted for members of the government party and consistent with the drafting instructions which the Minister provided to the Committee in response to the Committee’s Order, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the Committee, in both official languages but with the sponsoring member’s name and constituency redacted, within one week of the adoption of this motion; and
(f) directs that all further meetings in relation to Bill C-27 be postponed until such time as the witnesses mentioned in paragraphs (a) and (b) have appeared and the documents mentioned in paragraphs (c) to (e) have been produced
.Debate arose thereon.
Ryan Turnbull moved, — That the debate be now adjourned.
The question: "That the debate be now adjourned" was put and was negatived on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Valerie Bradford, Iqwinder Gaheer, Viviane Lapointe, Ryan Turnbull, Tony Van Bynen — 5;
NAYS: Bernard Généreux, Laila Goodridge, Sébastien Lemire, Brian Masse, Rick Perkins, Ryan Williams — 6.
Debate resumed on the motion of Rick Perkins.
Debate arose thereon.
Brian Masse moved, —
That the motion be amended by deleting the words:
“(a) renews its invitation issued to the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry to appear before the Committee, for at least two hours, provided that if he does not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, the Chair shall be instructed to report to the House forthwith a recommendation that this Committee be empowered to order his appearance from time to time; And that following the words ‘to produce copies of the texts of’ the word ‘any’ in section (e) be replaced with the words, ‘the three privacy amendments’ by the following: “e) orders the minister to produce copies of the texts of the three amendments to Bill C-27 referenced in his presentation on Tuesday, September 26, 2023, that pertain to Part 1 of Bill C-27; and”.At 4:50 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 5:03 p.m., the sitting resumed.
The debate resumed on the amendment of Brian Masse.
After debate, the question was put on the amendment and the result of the vote was announced:
YEAS: Bernard Généreux, Laila Goodridge, Brian Masse, Rick Perkins, Ryan Williams — 5;
NAYS: Valerie Bradford, Iqwinder Gaheer, Viviane Lapointe, Ryan Turnbull, Tony Van Bynen — 5.
Whereupon, the Chair voted in the negative.
Accordingly, the amendment was negatived.
Debate arose thereon.
Ryan Williams moved, — That the motion be amended by deleting the words “(f) directs that all further meetings in relation to Bill C-27 be postponed until such time as the witnesses mentioned in paragraphs (a) and (b) have appeared and the documents mentioned in paragraphs (c) to (e) have been produced”.
After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Ryan Williams and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Bernard Généreux, Laila Goodridge, Sébastien Lemire, Brian Masse, Rick Perkins, Ryan Williams — 6;
NAYS: Valerie Bradford, Iqwinder Gaheer, Viviane Lapointe, Ryan Turnbull, Tony Van Bynen — 5.
Debate arose thereon.
Brian Masse moved, —
That the motion be amended by deleting the words:
“(a) renews its invitation issued to the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry to appear before the Committee, for at least two hours, provided that if he does not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, the Chair shall be instructed to report to the House forthwith a recommendation that this Committee be empowered to order his appearance from time to time;
(b) a summons do issue for the appearance of Simon Kennedy, Deputy Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development, to appear before the Committee, for at least two hours, at a date and time determined by the Chair, but no later than Thursday, October 19;
(d) orders the production of (i) the draft speaking notes recommended to the Minister’s office, for the Minister’s use before the Committee, by his department, and (ii) the final version of the speaking notes which the Minister relied upon during his appearance before the Committee, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the Clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, prior to the Deputy Minister’s appearance on Thursday, October 19;
(e) orders the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel to produce copies of the texts of any amendments to Bill C-27 drafted for members of the government party and consistent with the drafting instructions which the Minister provided to the Committee in response to the Committee’s Order, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the Clerk of the Committee, in both official languages but with the sponsoring member’s name and constituency redacted, within one week of the adoption of this motion; and”
And replace the words “(c) orders the Minister, his department and the Department of Justice to produce the draft texts of amendments to Bill C-27 discussed by the Minister provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, no later than Thursday, October 19;” with the following “orders the Minister, his department and the Department of Justice to produce the draft texts of amendments to Bill C-27 discussed by the Minister, on Tuesday, September 26, 2023, pertaining to Part 1 provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, no later than Friday, October 20, 2023”
.After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Brian Masse and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Valerie Bradford, Iqwinder Gaheer, Bernard Généreux, Laila Goodridge, Viviane Lapointe, Sébastien Lemire, Brian Masse, Rick Perkins, Ryan Turnbull, Tony Van Bynen, Ryan Williams — 11;
NAYS: — 0.
The question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:
YEAS: Valerie Bradford, Iqwinder Gaheer, Bernard Généreux, Laila Goodridge, Sébastien Lemire, Joël Lightbound, Brian Masse, Rick Perkins, Ryan Turnbull, Tony Van Bynen, Ryan Williams — 11;
NAYS: — 0.
The motion, as amended, read as follows:
That, in relation to its order of reference concerning Bill C-27, An Act to enact the Consumer Privacy Protection Act, the Personal Information and Data Protection Tribunal Act and the Artificial Intelligence and Data Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts, and given that
(i) the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry gave evidence to the Committee on Tuesday, September 26, 2023, stating “I want to put on the table specifically what our government will propose to improve the bill. These are the amendments that we are proposing to the bill”,
(ii) in response to the Minister’s evidence, the Committee, on Thursday, September 28, 2023, ordered the production of “the amendments discussed by the Minister in his opening remarks to the Committee on Tuesday, September 26, 2023,”, and
(iii) the Minister’s response to the Committee’s Order refers to “highlighting … areas for amendments in my remarks”, includes an annex providing “detail related to the amendments we would propose”, suggests “Government members would propose amendments” and that “we are ready to work with committee members to develop amendments”, and asserts “My officials are currently working with the Department of Justice to draft these amendments”,
the Committee is deeply concerned about the contradictions in the Minister’s oral and written evidence to the Committee and, therefore, orders the Minister, his department and the Department of Justice to produce the draft texts of amendments to Bill C-27 discussed by the Minister, on Tuesday, September 26, 2023, pertaining to Part 1 of the Bill provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, no later than Friday, October 20, 2023.
Questioning of the witnesses resumed.
At 6:03 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.